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jugglestruck
Special user
Wales
947 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 9:09am
This is out in a couple of weeks and presently on pre-order by World Magic Shop.
It looks like a very effective, usable stack.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WitGE9YD6w0
www.jugglestruck.co.uk
www.lukecloseupmagician.com
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Zombie Magic
Inner circle
I went out for a beer and now have
6543 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 9:22am
While I would most likely never use it ( too lazy, not smart enough, etc. ), it looks like a great project. I'd probably get it just to see how clever it is.
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doriancaudal
Special user
793 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 10:30am
Not very impressed by this one. I think you can obviously do the same, and even more, if you have read "The Berglas effects" by Richard Kaufman. But I am still looking forward to the first reviews.
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Xpilot
Veteran user
Florida
398 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 10:34am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-03 10:30, doriancaudal wrote:
Not very impressed by this one. I think you can obviously do the same, and even more, if you have read "The Berglas effects" by Richard Kaufman. But I am still looking forward to the first reviews. |
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If the 'Berglas effect' was the only thing involved I might agree with you. But having used a MD for many years I'm always interested in further possibilities using it.
Also, I saw on this weeks product review that it was available for pre-order at World Magic Shop so I tried to find it by going to their web site and doing a search for "Recall". Nothing came up so I'm not sure how you would find out what the price is going to be or how to actually pre-order it.
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drphil
Veteran user
312 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 10:38am
I hope this is as good as it looks. I would think this might presude other magicians to see the advantages in learning a mem. Deck. I've used the aronson for years but this might be better with more built in effects. This has my interest and am curious to what others think that don't use a mem. Deck. Because the real secret is it's not that hard to learn one. Once learned a simple glimps becomes a deadly wepon. And card jazzing takes on a new meaning.
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drphil
Veteran user
312 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 10:47am
I was just on world magic site and it comes up under the new catigory at 39.47. Not a bad price for a 2 DVD set.
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Showmethatagain
Regular user
136 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 11:35am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-03 10:34, Xpilot wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-05-03 10:30, doriancaudal wrote:
Not very impressed by this one. I think you can obviously do the same, and even more, if you have read "The Berglas effects" by Richard Kaufman. But I am still looking forward to the first reviews. |
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If the 'Berglas effect' was the only thing involved I might agree with you. But having used a MD for many years I'm always interested in further possibilities using it.
Also, I saw on this weeks product review that it was available for pre-order at World Magic Shop so I tried to find it by going to their web site and doing a search for "Recall". Nothing came up so I'm not sure how you would find out what the price is going to be or how to actually pre-order it.
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Here's the link
http://www.worldmagicstore.com/recall-crosbie-wizard-productions-p-7393.html?osCsid=e00htef3koarrhllbck3uoet96
Cheers al
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mike donoghue
Regular user
172 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 1:55pm
For many many years I have had an interest in memorised deck effects after watching magic legend David Berglas do his "Any Card At Any Number" at his home in Barnet.
Over the years I have looked at every single stack that has been on the market( and I mean every single one). All have their advantages & disadvantages.
This looks like it will be a great DVD and it's obviously something different, as it's not usual for a full 2 disc DVD to be just on memorissed stacks.
However both Aronson & Tamariz have stacks that can do everything that this stack offers( and so do others). This is not a critisism in any way as I WILL BE BUYING THIS WHEN IT IS AVAILABLE as I love memorised deck work.
One point I would like to make is that if you entertain with a stacked deck, you need about 3 entertaining routines in your set and that's it ! You do not need 37 poker hand deals, 26 bridge demonstrations, 15 spelling effects & 20 versions of ACCAN.
£ effects maximum or your audience will seem as if they are hypnotised and fall asleep lol.
Anyway, looking forward to this.
MIKE DONOGHUE
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JeremyM0411
Special user
Moody, Alabama
606 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 1:56pm
This is very interesting!!! Can't wait for some reviews!
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drphil
Veteran user
312 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 8:39pm
We don't know what he has built into his stack so how can we compare it to other mem. decks. I agree you only use 2 or 3 effects at one time but the more you know the more options you have to pick the best effect at the time. This is the art of jazz magic, and increases the fun. Not to always have just a few pet moves or tricks. If I think this deck offers an effect I want and can't easily do with the aronson I will memorize it also.
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Larry Davidson
Inner circle
Potomac, MD
5147 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 8:40pm
Quote:
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On 2012-05-03 10:38, drphil wrote:
...Once learned a simple glimps becomes a deadly wepon...."
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You don't even need a glimpse. See my work incorporating a Marlo idea (which I independently created).
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crozboz
New user
York, UK
21 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 10:05pm
Thanks for the kind words regarding the trailer and WPR mention.
MikeDonoghue - you make a great point and I couldn't agree more. I think the most valuable thing about working with a mem deck is knowing enough about card magic to be able to, more or less, make it up as you go along.
ie. put a deck of cards down, have someone name a card and just see what happens.
It's for that exact reason that I put in all the spelling features for example, as well as a couple of other little bits and pieces.
The features built in are:
Any called for poker hand (after one cut)
36 cards spelled to
Five 4 of a kinds spelled to (see trailer - 5 of hearts being one)
A few of the cards are specially placed for a very usable Jenning's style coincidence routine (suggested by Eric Richardson)
4 aces are in "easy to produce" locations
There is a built in storytelling deck (this isn't built in as such, but it does save you having to create your own
It's a fishing deck - or pump deck
There are a couple of other lesser features built in, but they're rather trick specific. They are on the DVD mind you.
That being said - my favourite thing to do is just put the deck down and say "name a card".
You never know what'll happen!
Tom Crosbie
"Expanded bread shell is a method I hope to see lots more of in future" - Tom Stone
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drphil
Veteran user
312 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 10:08pm
Larry ,I agree their are many ways I was using the example because of how easy it is to do. Also I'm curious what others think that don't use any mem. deck about this new stack. Will this move them over or will they not even consider it.
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drphil
Veteran user
312 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 10:18pm
Crozboz this sounds great and I look forward to getting this. I use the aronson deck now but like I stated I'm always looking for new ways to jazz it up. And I'm looking forward to see what you have come up with.
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crozboz
New user
York, UK
21 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 10:34pm
Thanks Dr.Phil,
Aronson was my second stack, and it was great for a short while. Tamariz was my first, and I never used any of the features - then the same went for Aronson (except the occasional use for the Any called for Poker hand)
I've gone through the others as well - Osterlind, New Deck, etc. But I settled with mine, just because it had enough features you can use without disturbing the stack.
There are a few clever ideas on the first disc for just any mem stack - so if you get the dvd and find you don't think the Shadow Stack is worth learning, you will hopefully still get a couple of ideas from it!
Cheers,
Tom,
Tom Crosbie
"Expanded bread shell is a method I hope to see lots more of in future" - Tom Stone
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drphil
Veteran user
312 Posts
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Posted: May 3, 2012 10:57pm
Crozboz : this is one I'm looking forward to getting. But I wonder what other non mem. Deck workers think. I think learning a new deck for more built in effects is a no brainer. I also love the idea of setting the deck down and jazzing effects based on what is said and what you know. But I must admit I'm not their yet ,I still go to the comfort zone of tried and true.
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mike donoghue
Regular user
172 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 5:44am
Hi eveyone.
Dr. Phil-we do know what Tom has built into his stack as it tells you on the Worldmagicstore site in the advert. Also the guys tell you on the latest wizard product review.
Crozboz- this looks like it's going to be an excellent release and I can't wait to get it, and check out your Shadow stack.It's about time that someone put a DVD out on memorised deck work. I am sure it will do really well when it's released.
Mike Donoghue
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crozboz
New user
York, UK
21 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 8:16am
Mike,
That was kind of our thinking too. It was a lot of work creating the *** thing, but it's pretty handy now it's done.
Thanks for your kind words (i just wish people on the Genii forum were as nice!)
I think the memorised deck in general is a rather advanced technique. ie. you need to know a lot about magic before you can really use one to it's full potential.
A lot of people, it seems, done come across the concept until a few years into being into magic. I think the DVD will get it into the younger magicians hands at least.
But yeah - hopefully it will do well! Fingers crossed at least!
All the best,
Tom,
Tom Crosbie
"Expanded bread shell is a method I hope to see lots more of in future" - Tom Stone
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drphil
Veteran user
312 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 10:16am
Mike : Perhaps I worded that incorectly. What I should have said was how can you say that the other decks can do everything that this offers. As you stated each stack has it's advantages & disadvantages. How the built in effects play out is what determines the usefulness of this compared to other stacks. I think the more built in effects you have the more interesting the deck would be. Also that more workers would want to learn this. I've used the aronson for years but having two m.d. 's down just sounds like more fun.
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cardbiker
Elite user
484 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 12:01pm
Hi Crozboz,first I'd like to say I have ordered this and really looking forward to receiving it, my question is if you already have a stack memorised as I do with the Aronson will learning a second stack be confusing as you are already automatically associating cards with their numbers.Thanks Tim
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mike donoghue
Regular user
172 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 12:50pm
Hi drphil- I couldn't agree more.However, how the built in effects play out in any stacked deck trick, or infact any trick at all, depends on the performer who is doing it. If the performer is half decent it will play out well.
I totally agree that the more DIFFERENT effects that you can do with a stack the better it is(especially as you have put in quite a few hours to learn it).I am mearly stating that with both ARONSON & Tamariz(just to name 2)there are a hell of a lot of DIFFERENT effects built into them. Also you ask, how I can say that the other stacks can do what this one can do? it's simple, I have looked at the list of effects in the Aronson/Tamariz books and I have looked at the effects listed on Worldmagicshop website & have also talked to Tom.
I am not knocking RECALL in any way. I will be buying this as I think it's a long overdue DVD and the effects and stack will be great, and I may prefer this to other stacks.
Can't wait until 2 weeks so that I can get my hands on this.
Mike Donoghue
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ChrisWall
New user
England
74 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 3:52pm
I'm in a very privileged position of knowing the stack and I've also seen Tom work with it numerous times.
I think what the stack offers above everything else is the flexibility with the jazz work. The stack has many features for common cards that make it perfect so for example if you put down the pack of cards and ask someone to name one you have a very good chance of being able to perform something that you don't always get to do. I think this makes it more fun for the magician and helps liven up your performance. After seeing Tom do this I can speak to how effective it is.
All of the popular concepts of memorised decks can be performed and of course some unique effects with the shadow stack. And I know there are other properties that are waiting to be pushed to their limits.
I can't speak to the content of the DVD as I haven't seen it but I can speak to Tom's teaching ability which is very clear and very informative so I can only expect the same on the DVD.
During the creation of this stack Tom learnt 6 OTHER stacks (7 including the shadow). Which goes to show how much work was put into this to develop it and make it the best it can be.
I honestly think that this stack is a very impressive tool to have in any magicians (or mentalists) arsenal. I believe the work on false shuffles etc. will be worth the price of the DVD alone.
Oh and the false count Craig mentions on the WPR --- AMAZING! SOOO fooling. Joe Williamson = Genius.
I hope this is helpful to someone who is thinking about this. I hope I can answer some questions about it.
Chris.
"Have your cake and eat it... there's no other reason to have a cake" - Derren Brown
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Daren
Inner circle
1165 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 4:14pm
To learn this new stack do you need to use mneumonics or is it mathematical?
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ChrisWall
New user
England
74 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 4:23pm
It isn't a mathematical stack no and I used a combination of rote/mnemonics to remember the cards. I honestly believe if you put in the work it takes maybe 2-3 days. I did it by learning 5 cards a day and getting there that way.
This however isn't really any different to Mnemonica or *edit- many - * other stacks.
Chris.
"Have your cake and eat it... there's no other reason to have a cake" - Derren Brown
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crozboz
New user
York, UK
21 Posts
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Posted: May 4, 2012 10:52pm
Hey Tim -
like Chris said above (and flatter me, he did in the process!) Shadow Stack was my 7th stack.
If you use Aronson - then you already know number 3 in Shadow Stack! ;-)
It doesn't make learning a stack easier - but it does certainly give you the confidence to know that you CAN learn a stack.
I know plenty of magicians who use multiple stacks - and with no real problems. This being said - I know 7 stacks, and can call them out with a bit of effort - but Shadow Stack is my main stack which I can recall (no sales pitch intended) the fastest.
eg. Shadow Stack I know instantly, whereas Aronson or Osterlind etc. might take me a few seconds to remember.
Tamariz I'm still pretty quick on, but then again it was my first.
So yeah - you can easily learn a second stack, but depending on which you use more often, the other one will slowly start to go.
But if you've been using Aronson for a while, I'd guess it will pretty much stay for good in the back of your mind, and another stack can sit there quite happily!
Basically - I didn't have a problem. I know plenty of people who didn't have a problem. But everyone is different.
Quote:
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On 2012-05-04 16:23, ChrisWall wrote:
it takes maybe 2-3 days. I did it by learning 5 cards a day
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Errrr....Chris.... I don't mean to correct your maths or anything - but, you wanna take a second look at that?
Tom Crosbie
"Expanded bread shell is a method I hope to see lots more of in future" - Tom Stone
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ChrisWall
New user
England
74 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 4:51am
As you said when learning a stack everyone is different. I learnt it more by rote than anything else by learning 5 cards a day (with a couple of mnemonics when they stood out in my head.) If you were to use purely mnemonics to get the stack down then I believe it could easily be done in 2-3 days. Personally, that just wasn't my style.
I hope this clears some things up. Sorry for the confusion, maths never was my strong point haha.
Chris.
"Have your cake and eat it... there's no other reason to have a cake" - Derren Brown
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MagicallyMe
Regular user
Manhattan Beach, CA
102 Posts
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Posted: May 5, 2012 11:26pm
Trailer & WPR looked great. For those of us to lazy or just not great at memorizing, is this stack easier to learn? Do you provide a method to make memorizing it not so painful?
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puggo
Inner circle
1341 Posts
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Posted: May 6, 2012 11:33am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-05 23:26, MagicallyMe wrote:
Trailer & WPR looked great. For those of us to lazy or just not great at memorizing, is this stack easier to learn? Do you provide a method to make memorizing it not so painful?
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I'm certainly no memory expert, but I would think part of the answer would relate to the type of learning style most suited to you. Also, once you have learnt a stack, it needs to be 'second nature'. Check out Larry Davidson's DVD's for some work that makes memdeck even easier and more bullet proof (Also check out '808' - reason enough to learn a memdeck).
I will pick this up as I learnt a stack but hardly ever use it (pocket space & FASDIU issues) but I know that I should... What you can do with a memdeck definitely gives your card magic another angle.
Charlie
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MagicallyMe
Regular user
Manhattan Beach, CA
102 Posts
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Posted: May 6, 2012 2:34pm
Thanks! I did once learn Si Stebbins, though I found it a bit limitting (probablyjus tmy lack of knowing wha tto do with it.)
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BaryBazz
Regular user
119 Posts
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Posted: May 7, 2012 4:31am
Hi Guys,
I like the look of this and have always wanted to learn and use a stack but I am now in my late 50's and I have found trying to learn and memorize both the Aaronsen and Tamariz stacks very daunting and too big a challenge.Will I be able to get this one down any easier or are all the stacks just as difficult to learn.
Barry
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