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Dixie

Loyal user
213 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 3:39am
Dear AllAboutMagic,
I experienced the same as probably many other magicians who started with mistakes and learned from it. I ordered a used and refurbished origami from Snap Illusions and was not aware that even in US the market is flooded with copies. However, Jack stole my money (as he did from many others) and never delivered.
I was so angry that I bought the next original origami made by John Gaughan wich was offered by a respected dealer.
That is, why I have an understanding for those who make mistakes and learn from it and I am happy that you feel similar and do not in general blame all victims of Snap Illuions.
Best regards
Richard
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Dixie

Loyal user
213 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 3:49am
Dear Sam Sandler
maybe it helped that people in charge of the Snap Illusion investigation get a lot of information now that they are known to the victims. The fact that Snap Illusion still offered products on their website although they did already announce in public that they can no longer take orders and deliver was probably not a good idea.
Maybe an experienced attorney told that that this is another prove of their fraud and they better stop it?
Richard
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MaxfieldsMagic

Inner circle
Instead of practicing, I made
1976 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 3:53am
How has this company managed to rip off so many people without someone being prosecuted? Seems like this would be a matter of local, state and federal jurisdiction, given their business model. Surely someone in authority must be willing to investigate.
I didn't say it was your fault, I said I was blaming you.
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Hector

Loyal user
262 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 6:37am
"good news" guys...
Please, go to their website.
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hugmagic

Inner circle
6563 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 10:02am
Maybe or just hiding better.
Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
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Chris Henderson

Special user
Indiana -- Anyone w/ no life would have
545 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 11:51am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-14 10:02, hugmagic wrote:
Maybe or just hiding better.
Richard
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He isn't hiding well enough. This is still up and running:
http://snapillusions.blogspot.com/
"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief"
--Gerry Spence
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The Mirror Images

Inner circle
Michigan/USA
1973 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 10:45pm
That is not run by the same server the site is on. That is run by a different client called blogger. So this will stay up until they either take it down or someone does. Hope that makes sense.
Best,
Steven and Michael, The Mirror Images
The MOST Identical Twin Illusionist
http://www.themirrorimages.com
Check out our latest new effect
- Liquid Steel NEW
- MotoBox NEW
- MotoMation NEW
- Voyager
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Dixie

Loyal user
213 Posts
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Posted: May 15, 2012 5:36am
Dear Richard,
as long as they are hiding so deep in their mud that no customer will find them, it is O.K. with me.
As soon as they pop up to find new victims, someone will make their hiding place public.
There are too many now who are watching.
Regards
Richard
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videokideo

Special user
883 Posts
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Posted: May 15, 2012 3:37pm
Strange splash screen. It seems the company hosting has shut down their account...I wonder if the city or prosecutors looking into this had this move made? Often they will have a site shut down that is in conflict with business laws...until the site or owner can show laws are being followed and complaints have been extinguised. Or, of course, they may have not paid their bill for hosting. Glad to see this jerk getting his. I still stand by the advice that anyone who is owed money or props file a small courts claim. Its my guess only a few will see anything in the end.
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Urdangarin

New user
Domimican Republic
30 Posts
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Posted: May 15, 2012 6:04pm
Quote:
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On 2012-05-13 21:47, AllAboutMagic wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-05-13 17:36, Dixie wrote:
Dear AllAboutMagic,
I truly admire those people who are born completelly educated and do never need any bad experience to learn from it.
Those who got burned have at least learned something about fire.
How do you know that fire can burn people if you never had the chance to experience it?
Richard
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Dixie, that comment was a generalization and not meant for anyone in particular. Please refer to other posts above about the obvious inferior quality of a snap prop. A beginners eye may not catch that, but a professional's eye certainly would. Also when you know that an origami costs about 7000 and you buy a brand new one for 3000.....you shouldn't be surprised when something goes wrong with either the prop, the transaction, or both. Of course if you do not know what one should cost and are unaware about legit and black market props then "yes" it's a tough lesson to learn. However any established illusionist should know better. While the situation sucks, I find it hard to have sympathy for a performance artist who will sacrifice quality and ethics to save a few bucks. For the amateurs who are just starting out, that's a different story. But my post was directed at the performer and not the amature. It was also directed at the Café members who have a vast resource of experience to fall on when it comes to the ins and outs of "grand illusion." just look at the magician who performs with losander and shimada....he recently inquired about snap and received a ton of great advice from the members here. I do not know you, nor which side of the equation you stand. If you are on the beginner/amature side then "yes" I truly sympathize with you.
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Dear AllAboutMagic
It all depends on what you mean by professional/amateur.
If professional means lot of experience in knowing prices and qualities, I am not a professional, I am an amateur. If Professional means making a living on your magic and not having over incomes bud what you do with magic, YES I am a professional.
I think this comment was unpolite.
By the way I play guitar and a FENDER STRATOCASTER (USA MADE) will cost you 450 US-$, bud the same FENDER STRATOCASTER (MEXICAN MADE) will cost you 175 US-$. Same Guitar, Same FENDER, different price ......
I find it hard to understand that in a land like USA, where laws are so strong with copies and unauthorized props, there it gives a company, who announced themselves on WEB and sell unauthorized copies.
Sory for not being so smart AllAboutMagic.
I am not
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AllAboutMagic

Loyal user
California
244 Posts
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Posted: May 15, 2012 7:39pm
Quote:
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Dear AllAboutMagic
It all depends on what you mean by professional/amateur.
If professional means lot of experience in knowing prices and qualities, I am not a professional, I am an amateur. If Professional means making a living on your magic and not having over incomes bud what you do with magic, YES I am a professional.
I think this comment was unpolite.
By the way I play guitar and a FENDER STRATOCASTER (USA MADE) will cost you 450 US-$, bud the same FENDER STRATOCASTER (MEXICAN MADE) will cost you 175 US-$. Same Guitar, Same FENDER, different price ......
I find it hard to understand that in a land like USA, where laws are so strong with copies and unauthorized props, there it gives a company, who announced themselves on WEB and sell unauthorized copies.
Sory for not being so smart AllAboutMagic.
I am not
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Actually you are quite a bit smarter than you are giving yourself credit for. I applaud you for asking the question on this forum and using the members here as a learning resource. I think you are very smart, and as a result you will most likely not get burned. I did not mean any offense to you, and I should have used you as an example for how the Café can help someone from being ripped off. You posted a very valid question and received many valid answers.
As far as dealing with a company like SNAP....they get away with it because it costs a lot of money to prosecute. And until now there hasn't been a large enough pool of people who have banded together to go after them and guarantee a win. There is still no guarantee, but at least now the authorities will have to listen.
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Doruk Ülgen

Elite user
423 Posts
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Posted: May 15, 2012 8:29pm
Any Snaps victim, pm me to join us on the law case againist Snap. We re gonna finish this thing...
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Peter Loughran

V.I.P.
Ontario, Canada
2510 Posts
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Posted: May 16, 2012 9:36am
Doruk, thanks for sending me the message in regards to who my client needed to contact. He has now done so, hopefully it helps.
There is one fatal flaw in Snap's excuse of falling behind in orders and unable to deliver. If they really were backed up, why would they continue to take new orders and promise them normal turn around times? You wouldn't unless ofcourse you have already spent the money from the old orders and simply cannot afford to make and ship them, but you need new money, so you keep taking orders with no intentions of delivering.
In the case of my customer, he was getting a "Custom" Asrah built and shipped to France for only $1300. By the time you pay for a crate or case, building materials, and shipping on a large freight overseas, there would be no money left for the builder, infact if it was my company I would be in the hole by a lot, unless ofcourse they had no intentions of shipping anything then its $1300 of pure profit. If it sounds to good to be true, then it probably is.
Vicki also gave him a high pressure sales tactic. I saw the emails. First they said that there would be no custom and just to order the standard model at $1650. Then after he said he didn't want it, she came back and said that they could now do the custom aspect, and best of all it would be the same price as the standard. But they had a sale going on and it was the last day of the sale, and he would get the prop plus Free shipping to France and the custom work done all for $1300 but he HAD to order and PAY that day. He had to pay through google or something because they couldn't accept PayPal (because PayPal shut them down but they didn't tell him that). He paid that day to get the sale, but 2 years later and he still has no prop, and they ignore his emails. Again, If it sounds to good to be true, then it probably is.
Another thing that ticks me off is that they give reputable builders a bad name. Some people are very reluctant to deal with another builder after being a Victim of Snap! And people who just see their site and don't know they are a scam come and think that all illusions should be priced like the Asrah above. I really hope snap is made take responsibility for their actions of theft.
P.
Brand new: CRYSTAL CLEAR
www.masterofillusions.ca
Check out my new movie:
www.plasterrockmovie.com
www.globaluniversal.com
Also visit: www.tenyoelite.com
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videokideo

Special user
883 Posts
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Posted: May 16, 2012 6:12pm
That's a great post, Peter!
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MagiChrisMitch

Elite user
497 Posts
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Posted: May 16, 2012 10:20pm
I think it would be great to have many people contact snap with bogus sales purchase questions. Let them think they will be making another sucker sale. Waste their time. Once they get excited about yet another scam, let them know they're scum. Someone needs to find this guy and have a nice face to face. He deserves to be schooled the old fashioned way.
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Peter Loughran

V.I.P.
Ontario, Canada
2510 Posts
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Posted: May 18, 2012 8:43am
Thanks VK
Brand new: CRYSTAL CLEAR
www.masterofillusions.ca
Check out my new movie:
www.plasterrockmovie.com
www.globaluniversal.com
Also visit: www.tenyoelite.com
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Dixie

Loyal user
213 Posts
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Posted: May 18, 2012 6:49pm
I got a question to the fellow magicians in US and I appologize in advance if it may sound stupid. After all, I am a foreigner and not familiar with US procedures:
What is the right way to contact the IRS if someone would like to suggest to them to compare certain payments of foreign magicians to a certain company in 2010 and 2011 with the tax filing such a company did for the same years?
Are there local tax authorities who are the right contact or regional ones or how does this work?
Just as an example let us select randomly Indiana
Maybe a certain person did pay all his taxes, but then again, maybe he did not. Who knows.
Having a nice collection of copies of payment orders from several magicians, why not using it for a good purpose?
At least money which has bee taken illegally should not be easy earned money.
Richard
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Laszlo Csizmadi

Special user
From Hell
870 Posts
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Posted: May 18, 2012 7:15pm
I don't know who is living in that state but a local magician should print out this pages and take to the police station and ask their help. It would be a big help if this magician could show some payment copies. The question is: who is living in that state and would he volunteer to go to the police station? This magician would be a big hero to the other magicians. And don't forget you can make a difference (oh that's John Walsh from AMW).
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hugmagic

Inner circle
6563 Posts
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Posted: May 18, 2012 10:19pm
I doubt if IRS would do much. We just had the FBI take down some big goverment officials in Cleveland, Ohio, for kickback and undeclated earnings. IRS will hop on the bandwagon if the FBI goes after the party. In this case, since it involves interstate commerce and mail fraud, the FBI would be involved.
Richard
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
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DougTait

Elite user
Sebring, FL
426 Posts
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Posted: May 20, 2012 1:10am
For what it's worth:
From the US Postal Inspection Service website:
Quote:
| Mail Fraud
U.S. Postal Inspectors investigate any crime in which the U.S. Mail is used to further a scheme--whether it originated in the mail, by telephone, or on the Internet. The use of the U.S. Mail is what makes it mail fraud.
If evidence of a postal violation exists, Postal Inspectors may seek prosecutive or administrative action against the violator. However, if money is lost through a fraudulent scheme conducted via the mail, Postal Inspectors lack the authority to ensure you receive a refund and can't require that products, services, or advertisements--on the Internet or elsewhere--be altered.
Postal Inspectors base investigations of mail fraud on the number, pattern, and substance of complaints received from the public. The Postal Inspection Service will carefully review the information you provide. We may share the information with other agencies when there is a possible violation within their jurisdiction.
If you feel you've been victimized in a fraud scheme that involves the U.S. Mail, submit a Mail Fraud Complaint Form to the U.S. Postal Inspection Service. |
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The complaint form may be accessed here:
https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/forms/MailFraudComplaint.aspx
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men [and women] to do nothing."
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magaro

New user
2 Posts
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Posted: Jul 25, 2012 11:53pm
I got taken also with their special sale and also selling off old inventory. In my case they were shipping the items the next day if they received payment. I paid, been over a year no response to any communications. I also go the email a month or so ago asking if I wanted a refund or the product but have not heard anything and now their website is gone.
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LaurensMalter

Regular user
Belgium
121 Posts
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Posted: Jul 26, 2012 1:14pm
I've spent some time in the circus, and I know this: mess with people like SNAP is doing and, as said before, someone will SNAP their kneecaps..
I'm simply surprised that it hasn't happened before.. however, I read something about an uncle that died, perhaps not an excuse ;)
Saw this happen before, artists that didn't get paid en all of the sudden they showed up with 25 of their friends at the boss' office/trailer,
you'd be surprised how cooperative they become all of the sudden, and I agree, it is not the right way to solve things, but sometimes when all other options have failed,
this is the only solution left.
The police will hunt down someone who didn't pay his taxes using canine units, swat teams and helicopters, but real criminals usually are left alone.
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Dr. Delusion

Special user
Eugene, Oregon.
589 Posts
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Posted: Jul 26, 2012 2:34pm
It's so sad that these folks are still around. I have to admit I came really close to buying an illusion from them a while back, then I joined the Café and read the horror stories about so many peaple getting ripped off. I know that the products the make are pretty low on the quality end of things,but for someone that is just starting out or is low on money, it seems like a good way to go. You would think if they would actually hold up on what they say they will sell, and ship on the date agreed upon, they would have a good following along with a good reputation.
I wish the best of luck to everyone that has lost money to these knuckleheads.
Bob.
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tristanmagic

Elite user
450 Posts
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Posted: Jul 26, 2012 2:52pm
Quote:
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On 2012-07-26 14:34, Dr. Delusion wrote:
I know that the products the make are pretty low on the quality end of things,but for someone that is just starting out or is low on money, it seems like a good way to go. .
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I don't understand why someone would even consider buying from them.
Their products are badly build, not deceptive and they sell rip offs.
even if you are just starting out or low on money your show and audience deserve better!
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