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Pecan_Creek
Veteran user
The Nation of TEXAS!
331 Posts
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Posted: May 9, 2012 8:25pm
Al,
Thanks for the tips on the pop up. I have been working on it for a little while and your advice just rang a bell.
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Denis Bastible
Loyal user
Buffalo, New York
284 Posts
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Posted: May 9, 2012 8:40pm
Al, I started this mess. I want to say that your book is worth many more times the price of what I paid for it. Ignoring Jamie, I have been walking around and sitting with a half dollar in my hand and trying to get the knack of the move. I have a way to go toward proficiency, but it looks nice in the mirror. I like how your book laid out how time and experience changed your various routines. I liked reading your thought processes that went into the moves and evolution of the routines. Many thanks
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J-Mac
Inner circle
Ridley Park, PA
3005 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 12:46am
Thanks for the advice on your Pop-Up move, Al. Very much appreciated!
Regarding practicing the move at least 300 times, that is probably a minimum it should be repeated before even rehearsing a routine using it! I am finally starting to realize just how little I actually practice sleights and moves compared to how much I should repeat them. I watch Dani Daortiz show a sleight that makes me sweat - literally - and he says something like, "This move might look difficult but it doesn’t have to be. It becomes easy if you practice it at least 1,000 times before trying this routine...". And at first I think he's kidding, but quickly realize he is not! Most of the very deceptive sleights that must be executed blindly and swiftly - yet as casually as if you just scratched the back of your hand while talking to specs - do indeed need to be repeated hundreds and thousands of times before they become what people like to call "natural" in your hands.
But I rant...
Thanks again for your wisdom!
Jim
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Al Schneider
V.I.P.
A corn field, WI
525 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 10:42am
J-Mac
Your comments are appreciated.
There is one little correction.
The 300 times was going through the pop up move WITHOUT doing the sleight.
Most magicians practice a sleight but do not realize they should master the real move first.
Lapping is an example.
Magicians practice lapping a coin but never think of resting their hand on the table when they are not lapping.
The result is that when lapping it looks different than when doing nothing.
My book The Theory and Practice of Magic goes over the theory behind mastery.
The idea is to transfer a move from your concioiusness to your (insert favorite word here).
Some call this muscle memory. Some call this the subconcious. I call it a memory bank.
There is another factoid here.
You will not master a move until you can master all the ways it can be done wrong.
Often in my classes, students say, "How do I do it right, I do not want to practice it wrong."
I try to explain that practicing it wrong is not a problem.
Doing so will still get you to where you want to go.
One must go through that anyway.
Al Schneider
There is only one absolute truth.
That is that we do not know the absolute truth.
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harris
Inner circle
Harris Deutsch
6110 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 2:12pm
TB once said, if I had to do it all over again, I would have made more mistakes.
A worker will find ways (even after 3000 performances) to blend a mistake into the routine.
Some of my pencils have erasers on both ends. It is "pointless", to think I won't make mistakes.
Harris
staying green to grow....
Harris Deutsch
aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
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kentfgunn
Inner circle
Tampa FL
1423 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 2:23pm
Al,
I've been buying your books and downloads since Matrix came out, oh so long ago. The white book you published "Al Schneider on Coins" was the most important link to improving my magic I've ever had.
I had no teachers or mentors. I was stuck on a submarine with only books to learn magic from. That copy I bought . . . in . . . the seventies sometime is bedraggled and smells faintly of turbine oil, (I dropped in the bilge once).
The concept of actually doing an action, for real, many, many times to learn what reality looks like so helped me I cannot even really put the importance of it into words.
Written to you over the years a time or two. I'm so glad your big book was published. That little white one is still my odds-on favorite though.
Thanks again,
Kent Gunn
President of the Al Schneider Fan Club
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Al Schneider
V.I.P.
A corn field, WI
525 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 3:36pm
Kent,
Thanks.
You still gotta read my physics book.
Harris,
Sounds something like Murphy's Laws to me.
I read someplace on the internet that Murphy's Laws originated with some stage magician.
He said about his act, "If something can go wrong with it, it will."
I always thought it was some engineer thing. I am sure someone will check the internet and let me know.
Kent,
Got some dvds coming out soon. Some cup and ball routines that will make you drool.
I just got the proofs. They make me drool.
I have never seen them before till I saw the proofs two nights ago.
Can't belive my own stuff.
Al Schneider.
There is only one absolute truth.
That is that we do not know the absolute truth.
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Mb217
Inner circle
V.I.P. ;)
5752 Posts
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Posted: May 11, 2012 9:03am
Ahhh, I see only applause are allowed here as my post has been pulled. Must've "wrankled" somebody with alternative opinions and or not bowing low enough in awe.  Whatever! 
Hey Al, when you visit NYC, lets have a beer... Shake?
Good day to all.
*Check out my latest Crimp Change - REDUX! and other fine magic at www.vinnymarini.com 
"Not much new under the sun I hear but under the moon, well who knows, that just might be a horse of a different color." -Mb
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ljh21
New user
Philadelphia
68 Posts
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Posted: May 11, 2012 8:10pm
Al
Is there any video of your routines utilizing your improvments on the pop up move. I myself do not use the pop up move other then the 3 ball routine but I am very interested to see where you have taken this.
Thanks
Respectfully
Larry
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Al Schneider
V.I.P.
A corn field, WI
525 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 1:14pm
Ijh21;
I am not sure what you are talking about.
Are you talking about the pop up move or a move that replaces the pop up move.
A reason I am confused is becasue I published the pop up move in "Al Schneider on Coins in 1975.
Since then it has changed.
I do not remember if the new handling was on the Al Schneider DVD's presently available. I think I use the new pop up move on some coins across routines that are now on You Tube. Search on Al Schneider Magic. This may answer your question.
The description in Al Schneider Magic is the best so far to describe the move.
If you are talking about my replacement for the pop up move, it does not presently exist anywhere.
I am attempting to get the book with it out within a month.
It should be reasonably priced. Will be on amazon.com.
Less than $10. Depends on how many pages it is.
By the by, I got some proof DVD’s of my latest video shoot.
One will have a detail description of the move.
One has Stargate on it. So, yesterday was the first time I saw it done.
It looks very solid. I think it is the best coins across in existence.
It can be done very slow and the audience can burn you to the max.
I think you could repeat it and it would still sell well.
I believe this will become a classic like Matrix.
Al Schneider
There is only one absolute truth.
That is that we do not know the absolute truth.
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Mb217
Inner circle
V.I.P. ;)
5752 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 1:37pm
What about me Al...shake???
*Check out my latest Crimp Change - REDUX! and other fine magic at www.vinnymarini.com
"Not much new under the sun I hear but under the moon, well who knows, that just might be a horse of a different color." -Mb
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Atom3339
Inner circle
2173 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 3:18pm
Very cool, Al.
TH
Occupy Your Dream
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obuch
Regular user
197 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 4:18pm
I really respect you Mr Schneider.
For Matrix, Osmosis and tons of other stuff
I hope I'll have the chance to buy and read your new book as your coin magic speaks for itself
It always did
So... I'm a lttle suprised by you saying your coins across is/will be the best existance... well... that's a bit arrogant
I'm sure its great, because you say so, and you're the guy in coin magic but let people decide what's the best coins across in coin magic
show us first how great it is, personally I can't wait for it
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25257 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 4:21pm
Quote:
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On 2012-05-06 20:48, Denis Bastible wrote:
... Is there another less odd means to accomplish the same thing?
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Put the focus on watching the coins sink into your hand. Also, give Al's Snapback sleight (into Edge Grip if you want) a shot as the placement action.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Al Schneider
V.I.P.
A corn field, WI
525 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 7:39pm
Obuch
I would feel more sincerity in your statements if you used your real name instead of, that.
Furthermore, you do not seem to understand English.
Would you please look up each word in my post to understand what I said.
You clearly did not.
You have misinterpreted what I said and then attacked me based on that misunderstanding.
Furthermore, you are changing the path of this thread and ruining the fun of those that care.
I would appreciate it if someone would notify management about these two posts and recommend they be deleted.
Your post uses a technique of debate. Compliment then destroy. Please don't do that.
Al Schneider
Posted: May 12, 2012 7:50pm
Jonathan,
I must complement you on your observation.
Instead of the Classic Palm Vanish move I have tried the Finger Palm Vanish and the Snapback.
The Finger Palm vanish looks as good as the classic version.
And it is much easier to do.
Using the Snapback for the pop up looks incredable.
I actually am presenting these in the DVDs that are to be released soon.
While the Snapback looks very, very good; it is somewhat beyond my comfort level of performance.
It is a scary move to do.
Al Schneider
There is only one absolute truth.
That is that we do not know the absolute truth.
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ljh21
New user
Philadelphia
68 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 9:25pm
Al
I am referring to the replacement for the pop up move. Thanks I will check your YouTube vids's I look forward to the new book.
Thanks
Larry
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25257 Posts
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Posted: May 13, 2012 12:03am
There are false counts. IMHO even a series of "takes" while counting, though more organic, does not set the stage for a magical event as well as the pop-up actions. If you're performing regularly that's a testable hypothesis. I suspect the underlying design is to put the foucus on the interior of your closed hand where the magci will happen.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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funsway
Inner circle
improbable magic & extraordinary acts
4769 Posts
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Posted: May 13, 2012 7:40am
Not sure if I am now more confuesd or have a finer clarity. For me, all of the moves described are variations of a Utility Switch. In 1958 I learned to from one in a French Drop position with a P**h Up move and no idea who to credit it too. I always thought the Pop Up was from the Ball and Net Routine requiring the Sq**ze and have been told over the years that when done with other objects the Sleight is not a Pop Up just because the object sits on top on the fist. Some call all of these a Shuttle Pass, but for me that is an "open hand" display to give the impression the object is placed or tossed (Sankey?) from hand to hand and back. Now Johnathan indicates that the "melting action" is key to the Sleight being a Pop Up.
So, what makes a series of Moves and Sleights a "Pop UP" vs just a finger position variation of a Utility Switch? Or, are these all just "false counts" as Jonathan suggests?
Jonathan -- if I assume you last comments about eh "interior of your closed hand" to mean the final reveal of a different number of abjects than expected, then is the Pop Up just a conditioning prelude, a unique way of Directing Focus away from the P*lm*ng hand or an orchestration of several Moves to create a sense of magic?
"there is real merit in the magician who tries to be creative – from such endeavors magic sustains its life energy." Harold Rice
ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at gusarimagic@comcast.net
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obuch
Regular user
197 Posts
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Posted: May 13, 2012 11:50am
My name is Maciej Obuchowski,
And I'm really sorry that you thought I attacked you, that was not my intention at all.
I agree our post should be deleted.
And I didn't use any "debate technique", I just complimented your work...
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Al Schneider
V.I.P.
A corn field, WI
525 Posts
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Posted: May 13, 2012 12:43pm
I accept your apology.
I would like to point out that I said I believe it to be the best.
You post indicated that I said it was the best.
While I do have a large ego, I respect the ego of others and believe they form their own opinions.
I think my Matrix is the best.
However, I understand that many others out there think there's is the best.
A lot of others.
I cannot say they are wrong. I can say I don't agree.
Please give me credit to understand others can form their own opinion.
Unfortunately, writing a few lines in a forum does not reflect our emotions reflected in body language.
Al Scneider
There is only one absolute truth.
That is that we do not know the absolute truth.
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Mb217
Inner circle
V.I.P. ;)
5752 Posts
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Posted: May 13, 2012 12:52pm
Hmmmm, hey Al, maybe you have misinterpreted me as well??? I also have great respect for your work and have said that here and to you as much as anybody. Obuch is asking for deletion of posts and I have been deleted, and didn't ask for it. Go figure? I simply said what I meant as men should do with one another whether they agree or not.
For instance, Kentfgunn (Gunny) here and I often do not agree with one another but we respect one another, and enjoy a good friendship. Look forward to meeting him one day when I visit Cali or when he visits here in the Big Apple. He's a good guy, salty at times but that's to be expected from a straight-shooting submariner as he is. And I can be just as salty at times from the many other depths of where I come from but like him, I'm a pretty good guy and it doesn't take other good guys long to realize that moreso than not.
I've had my run-ins with the upper-echelon here at times but no blood, no foul with most of them. There are some that remain distant despite any worthwhile magic that could better connect us but it is what it is. And truth be told, everybody ain't nice, especially when things don't go their way and you mix in a little salt, pepper & ego.
Hopefully one day it'll be better. In the meantime, I continue to look forward to your Stargate effect. I'm sure if it's the best ever as you say, then it will be regarded as such by the craft, the big, small and all of us. But you're right, the only person who really needs to think it's the absolute best is you. If you believe that then it is that for you or anyone else, as you say of your Matrix.
*Check out my latest Crimp Change - REDUX! and other fine magic at www.vinnymarini.com
"Not much new under the sun I hear but under the moon, well who knows, that just might be a horse of a different color." -Mb
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harris
Inner circle
Harris Deutsch
6110 Posts
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Posted: Jul 12, 2012 11:32am
I have noticed something and wondering if other do it.
At time I only use it on the last coin. Sometimes I do it on every coin going into the left hand.
Though I notice it, I am not sure anyone watching has noticed it. That is unless I am discussing it with other workers in a jam session. (magic not music)
Harris
Harris Deutsch
aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
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