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Kevin Viner
Regular user
San Diego, CA
184 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 11:54am
I'm working with a speaker to create a magic effect for his wine seminars, and we want to create a change from white wine to red. Thought about a m****or gl***, but it's a bit too gaudy to use in his presentations. Ideally there wouldn't be a cover, as we would like this effect to just "happen" as he speaks. Thinking that chemistry might be my best bet, but I'm also open to any suggestions. Anybody know of any texts or products that I should look into?
Warmest regards,
Kevin Viner
Corporate Magician in Los Angeles, CA | Magician in San Diego | Magician in Orange County, CA |
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Dr_J_Ayala
Inner circle
In search of Vlad Dracul and his
2062 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 12:04pm
What kind of effect (other than the obvious change from color to color) are you looking for? Do you want it to be a visual change or a mysterious (poured into a fist, red silk drawn through to show it gone, then the wine reappears in the glass, but is now red) type of change? Are you aiming for the wine to be potable after the effect?
I have a few solutions that may work for you, but it depends on what you want to do with it. Your idea is great too!
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Kevin Viner
Regular user
San Diego, CA
184 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 12:07pm
Thanks for the quick response! Looking for a fast visual change. Ideally, it would be a double-take moment. i.e. He pours some white wine, says "If I had my way, all wine would be red" and then directs their attention back to the glass, where it is now red.
Since he's a public speaker, we aren't looking for a super magic effect, but something slightly subtle that catches the audience off guard.
Warmest regards,
Kevin Viner
Corporate Magician in Los Angeles, CA | Magician in San Diego | Magician in Orange County, CA |
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12903 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 1:25pm
For self working chemicals is the only method I have read about. Chemicals are dangerous poisons and toxic. Putting them in the hands of someone that does not realize all the dangers that could happen, I would pass on this. This has been discussed in the secret section of the Café.
I don't even know if it is possible for ordinary people to obtain the chemicals any longer, do to all the regulations.
All it would take is somone trying to be "funny" and grabbing the glass or bottle. The preparation is also dangerous, with glass, heavy chemical gloves and ventilation necessary.
Remember, you would be the person that would get charged with murder, no one else.
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randirain
Inner circle
Fort Worth, TX
1452 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 1:32pm
Of course some chemical magic comes to mind.
Phenolphthalein and ammonia water will turn a pretty wine color.
You could do an effect where both red and white wine come from the same bottle.
Take one glass and put some drops of phenolphthalein in it. It's a clear liquid, so you can't see it.
In the wine bottle, fill with water and put about a cap full of ammonia in it.
Add enough ammonia until you can barely start to smell it.
It doesn't take much, but you do want enough.
I would probably add a minute bit of yellow food coloring to get it to white wine color.
For the performance...
Open the bottle, pour some "white wine" into a clean glass.
Then pour some "red wine" into the phenolphthalein prepped glass.
That would work.
You can order Phenolphthalein online really cheap.
It's not a controlled chemical.
It's used in testing in chemistry, because it reacts to acids.
It's used for litmus testing.
Ammonia is like a dollar for a giant jug of it.
Randi
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12903 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 2:55pm
This changing of water and wine is discribed in the book, "Ken Brooke's Magic Place" published by L&L Publishing.
Chemical magic is explained in the very old Science and Mechanics Magazine, titled "Magic Handbook" 1962 Edition, published in 1961.
I think this goblet looks just like a wine glass.
http://www.elmwoodmagic.com/full/accessories-diamond-cut-mirror-goblet-steven-dick__2357.htm
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Dr_J_Ayala
Inner circle
In search of Vlad Dracul and his
2062 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 4:09pm
One of the methods I am familar with is exactly the one Randi describes above from the same book as referenced by Bill in the above post. There are many other pre-1940s books that describe various methods of changing the color of wine or water to wine, some chemical and others non-chemical in method.
A link to a simple way here: http://www.hocus-pocus.com/magicshop/ (7th product down on the page). If you do not see it, it is a product called Water To Wine To Water, $24.95.
Since the wine glass in the link above is sealed, you can place a drop of coloring on one side and show the goblet empty, then rotate it. As you pour the white wine, it will change color when it hits the glass. Also, you can pre-load it and change the glass in a flash (by waving your hand or a silk in front), thus turning it into actual red wine.
Finally, I would recommend finding a non-chemical way of performing this because there are just too many things that can go wrong when using chemicals, no matter how prepared you are and how carefully everything is done and handled.
Just a few ideas for you. I hope it helps.
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12903 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 4:17pm
Dr. J, that is an excellent idea using the mirror glass, thinking outside the box, I take my hat off to you. It may also work, the person only has to simply raise the glass for a toast, in this action the color changes.
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drjeb
New user
usa
14 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 7:38pm
You have two workable methods here. However I would not use ammonia in the bottle as someone could grab it and drink a mouthful.it wouldnt be dangerous
only unpleasant unless they got hold of your ammonia bottle. In doing this effect for many years I used a small amount of sodium carbonate in the water in
the"white wine" bottle. Its common name is washing powder(not baking powder). Adjust the amount to give you the color you want. The tiny amount of yellow
food color is a great idea. Using the mirror glass/goblet will also work except you should NOT be left around for people to see the secret.Remember also that Phenolphalein is used in many over the counter laxatives(read the labels)but you will only be using a very tiny amount so someone could sip the red wine ithout harm.
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randirain
Inner circle
Fort Worth, TX
1452 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 7:43pm
Quote:
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Finally, I would recommend finding a non-chemical way of performing this because there are just too many things that can go wrong when using chemicals, no matter how prepared you are and how carefully everything is done and handled.
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I wouldn't worry too much about it.
You're already using liquids, which means it will already be messy.
My example uses minutes amounts chemicals that are harmless in that amount.
The amount of ammonia you use is about as much as you urinate out every time you go to the bathroom.
So yes, you could use your urine if you wanted to.
Phenolphthalein used to be used for constipation. Of course it's not used any more, but my example uses drops of the stuff.
All the chemicals needed in my example could be stored in two tiny drop bottles.
The rest is all water.
Phenolphthalein is actually fun stuff to play with.
I wouldn't be frightened of it.
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Dr_J_Ayala
Inner circle
In search of Vlad Dracul and his
2062 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 10:15pm
@Bill: Thank you!
@Randi: Well pointed, but I will clarify my previous post: I am referring to chemicals far more dangerous that diluted ammonia or phenolphthalein. There have been methods in the past that use "semi-caustic" and caustic chemicals to effect, which would give pleasant results in said effects but the risks far outweighed the benefits.
Quote:
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On 2012-05-10 16:17, wmhegbli wrote:
..the person only has to simply raise the glass for a toast, in this action the color changes.
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To give two possible ways of arranging the pour: You can show the one side empty, spin the goblet and pour directly onto the coloring agent to give an immediate change, or you can pour over the edge of the mirror so that it fills both sides simultaneously. In this way, it allows you to show a glass of white wine, then effect the change as Bill described - turning the goblet as you raise it for a toast.
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12903 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 10:51pm
Dr. J, that is how I read your original post, pouring both sides at once. Great thinking!
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Dr_J_Ayala
Inner circle
In search of Vlad Dracul and his
2062 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 11:12pm
The 'toast(ing?) change' (we should call it that!) is a great idea because you can spin the goblet openly, fairly swiftly without spilling any liquid. This is especially true because normally, you do not fill a wine glass all the way up.
@Kevin Viner: Do you see any ideas you like best so far?
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Bob1Dog
Inner circle
Wife: It's me or this houseful of
1237 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 11:49pm
If you only need an ounce or two, a Niffen Tube is the perfect vehicle for this. Viking sells one for about $100.
Simple, easy to do and never fails to fool. You can load basically anything that will fit into the chambers. I've actually used it for doing a smaller version of mis made flag, and for a few RC priest acquaintences for water to wine.
The larger Niffen Tube you can find, the more you will be able to load. I have two: one that holds about four ounces and one that holds abut two ounces. The Viking version is about the size of my smaller one.
What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about? 
My neighbor rang my doorbell at 2:30 a.m. this morning, can you believe that, 2:30 a.m.!? Lucky for him I was still up playing my drums.
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Kevin Viner
Regular user
San Diego, CA
184 Posts
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Posted: May 11, 2012 7:04pm
Hi everybody. Thank you for the great ideas, and apologies for the delayed response. I've been busy working and haven't had a chance to come on the site in the last couple of days. I love the idea of rotating the glass in a toast, and allowing the food color to mix as one pours the wine. The only issue will be finding a glass that looks like nice crystal ware. The aforementioned "Diamond Cut Mirror Goblet" just looks cheesy to me. As a master wine expert (my friend, not me), I doubt that's something that would work for him. Maybe I'll have to get a custom-made glass . . .
This is what's great about the Café -- it shows that a group of people working collectively can create some great ideas!
Warmest regards,
Kevin Viner
Corporate Magician in Los Angeles, CA | Magician in San Diego | Magician in Orange County, CA |
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Bill Hegbli
Eternal Order
Bill and Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
12903 Posts
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Posted: May 11, 2012 8:25pm
There is a lead crystal glass on the market, of course it is more expensive.
http://themagicwarehouse.com/MB1955/Mirror-Goblet.html
I have to say, there is a reason for the gold trim on the 1st reference. They are magic props not dinner ware. They good mirror glass will be fluted or have some defusion. After all you can still tell it is water and wine in the glass.
If you don't like either of these you are out of luck. What looks nice for one, does not necessarily look nice for another.
Oh well, we tried. Can't please everyone all the time.
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Dr_J_Ayala
Inner circle
In search of Vlad Dracul and his
2062 Posts
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Posted: May 11, 2012 9:12pm
The second goblet looks more like Waterford crystal and would suit your taste better. Also, as as a Sommelier myself, there are lots of actual crystal glasses and goblets with gold rims on them - I have quite a few different sets in my china cabinet.
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Kevin Viner
Regular user
San Diego, CA
184 Posts
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Posted: May 11, 2012 10:01pm
That's nice to know -- thanks for the info. I'll run these by them. And as for wmhegbli, I'm sorry if I came off as unappreciative. Didn't mean to give that vibe at all. I really appreciate the great suggestions.
Warmest regards,
Kevin Viner
Corporate Magician in Los Angeles, CA | Magician in San Diego | Magician in Orange County, CA |
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john wills
Loyal user
272 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 10:47am
Also you can think of food color.
Formerly they used Amaranth,
nowadays Allura Red AC is used.
Perhaps a local drugstore can help you.
This because he does not have to drink it.
Sante
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Dr_J_Ayala
Inner circle
In search of Vlad Dracul and his
2062 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 3:21pm
Quote:
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On 2012-05-12 10:47, john wills wrote:
Also you can think of food color.
Formerly they used Amaranth,
nowadays Allura Red AC is used.
Perhaps a local drugstore can help you.
This because he does not have to drink it.
Sante
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Plain old liquid food coloring is what I was referring to in my posts, and that would allow one to drink the colored wine with no risks.
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Paul Jester
Special user
UK
753 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 8:51pm
I seem to remember reading to make white wine look red it's two drops red food colouring and one drop blue. I'd just have it in the bottom of a glass, and cradle the glass like a snifter to hide it. Pour the white wine in while talking, look down to see it red. The misdirection of the joke and hand holding the glass (admittedly in the wrong manner for white wine) will cover the change. Simple, cheap, and easy for the non-magician. Job done!
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Dr_J_Ayala
Inner circle
In search of Vlad Dracul and his
2062 Posts
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Posted: May 13, 2012 12:07am
Indeed, a 2:1 ratio of red to blue will do the trick in giving it that burgundy-esque look. The change is well hidden if you are using the aforementioned mirror glass.
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