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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 7:41pm
Cardworkers,
I apologize for the quality of the video and performance. This was done at my store in between customers (excuses, excuses) but its a small sample of the card material that I have been asked to release. I have had very few people offer help with determining originality, so I figured I would throw a few clips on here and let you guys devoure me publicly..lol.
Like I said, this is not my normal performing persona nor patter...its just a sample of material.
Billy
p.s. let me know how many people Im ripping off or stealing from if I publish this as "original"...i got thick skin, don't hold back.
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 7:42pm
Oops......this might help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StbsZYNoZ5c&feature=youtu.be
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The Burnaby Kid
Inner circle
GwangJu, South Korea
2720 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 8:07pm
If you can get in touch with a guy by the name of Brett Bishop (member at TSD, I believe), ask him about his "Card Fly", which is essentially the 3 Fly coin trick with cards. There are some parallels with the first phase. I don't know if he published (I don't think he did) but he might have come across some stuff in research that could help you out.
For the final phase, when the spread of three goes to four, I believe there's a Marlo Ace Assembly trick that uses that, that's been put on video by both Bill Malone and Steve Draun.
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 10, 2012 8:11pm
TBK,
Awesome, thanks for the advice! Now that I think about it....it does look a bit like 3 fly. The inspiration was from Paul Harris invisable palm (not sure why I kept saying invisable aces), but 3 fly is closer to what Im doing.
Again, thanks a ton!
Respectfully,
Billy
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 11, 2012 12:35pm
Ok,
I know the basic moves to credit, i.e. ascanio spread, DL, ect ect
However, the routine has not spured any other critique outside of TBKs comments. I hate to conclude that the effect is "original" due to lack of response. Im hoping that it doesn't suck, therefore the lackluster amount of feedback...like I said, I have thick skin so go ahead and rip it apart.
Billy
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Ben Train
Inner circle
Erdnase never had
4514 Posts
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Posted: May 11, 2012 1:40pm
Dani DaOrtiz, Brett Bishop, Eric Decamps, and a few others all have work on the 3-Fly with cards (or in the hands open travelers).
Its not a new idea, but that doesn't mean you can't do something new with it.
Check out their work. Keep playing.
Best,
Ben
I'm on twitter baby! twitter.com/ErdnaseinTo
I'm also on facebook! Search for Benzi Train.
And, of course, you can email me at Magic@BenTrain.ca
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 4:40pm
300 plus views and 2 responces.....thanks TBK and Mr. Train, perhaps I will assume that the effect is either, sub par to magic Café standerds, or nobody has hisotry/opinion on it. Either way, I am glad that Mr. Train has led me in the proper direction....thanks bro
Billy
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25249 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 5:44pm
I like that you're thinking about how to make the card appear and exploring ways to find out how the audience will notice/respond that that appearance.
The handling looks very close to the Stuart Gordon turnover and might put heat on the card(s) later.
If it amuses you to know - from way back when - the gaffed six card repeat lends itself to the visible cards across plot. Not wanting to expose or draw attention to the multiple card handling concept I avoided that open take on Hoffman's Mulitplying Money using cards.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 5:59pm
I think Im a little bit confused in regards to heat being put on the cards? I welcome heat, as the cards are not gaffed and when working in bars, the heat = focus.
See, the places I work I need effects that are visual so I can patter them up for the climax. This effect, although not performed on my video, gives the audience a few quick "what the heck just happened" moments except they don't say heck (if ya know what ima talkin bout), then I can close with the card coming from inside the deck.
Perhaps Im just having reading problems (lord knows my writting/reading skills are no so hot), but I welcome the heat.
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25249 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 6:05pm
Something of a Ramsay student here so keeping the method and the effect as far seperated as possible is a priority. Heat when you don't want it is a problem. Training the audince to expect the thing you are hiding is also a problem.
Here's the concern:
Let's say you use the Stuart Gordon turnover in other tricks. It looks so much like the way you are producing cards that they might expect another card to appear and be watching for a second card. That would cause problems... 
Totally with you and respecting that you are working and want tricks that offer payoffs to audience attention. The six card repeat is one such and the pocket approach is a winner there.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 12, 2012 6:11pm
Aw, Im following now..lol, Im a bit slow on the take at times! I see your point and I think its a great one....I think my effect does train the audience, not unlike an ambitious card. I like your thinking Mr. Townsend, thanks again
Billy
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25249 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 8:58pm
Billy, folks
I very much like the cards across plot. And was exploring combining the cards to pocket/cards up sleeve with the open travelers trick. In particular I was working at John Ramsay's routine with eight cards (as I was unaware of his five card version) with it's way ahead handling, miscalls etc crossed with the open travelers mechanics. The question I was addressing could be phrased as: Why not take the trick out of your pocket at some point in the process? They already get the gist of the trick so how about letting them "see" when the card appears too?
I got exactly this far: Adding John Kennedy's Visible Coins Across method to the trick, then I got tired of worrying about whether the thing on my belt was in place and intact. I felt sure the mechanics suffices for some open card appearances both under the hand and then In Plain View unseen as one takes a step back from the table.
have at and best wishes in your explorations,
Jon
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 15, 2012 2:31pm
Jon,
That is a very clever idea, yet I really hate the traditional cards across plot. don't get me wrong, it is a good effect in the right hands, yet it just donest suit me.
I hate to sound like the guy who only uses "SUPER STRONG VISUAL eye POPPING, visual, crazy, VISUAL.....magic", but I really don't get to deep into processes or plots. I also hate to sound like the quy who quotes, "youtube generation" and the like, but it just seems like the places I work have the aformentioned affliction.
Anyhoo, I just noticed I was thinking of cards across and you where talking about open travelers.......so, yeah, perhaps my attention span should.....span.
I like your thinking even more Jon, thanks for the comments and ideas to explore.
respectfully,
billy
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Jonathan Townsend
Eternal Order
Ossining, NY
25249 Posts
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Posted: May 15, 2012 6:22pm
I liked the idea of using the tent vanish and rub-a-dub sleight to make the card vanishes more "visual". From taking a card and tossing it up the sleeve or into midair - or rubbing it into the pocket through the cloth of the pocket.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 17, 2012 1:15pm
I got a comment on my video saying, "this is magic for magicians". I had to laugh becuse I have never performed for any magicians, ever! I don't go to magic clubs or the like and I doubt that any of the bars I work for have working magicians (or even hobbiest).
The effect is VERY strong and its visual. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but I am a worker. Every routine I do is from a shuffled and borrowed deck of cards (borrowed from the bar, even if I buy them for the bars). Every routine I perform can be done surrounded without fear of detection.
Perhaps whom ever posted this is magic for magicians can tell me why they think this? If you think the routine is crap, then I would agree....but to say something that is performed nightly for REAL people is magic for magicians, that I can not understand.
On another note, there is multiple pages from people talking about "how they break in cards", this has to be a joke? Do any of you actually perform on a nightly basis? My cards are beat down 30-45 minutes into the night, stained by whiskey..buffalo sauce...lipstick, ect.
Perhaps this is a bad venue for me to get advice, however I am going to post a clip of me performing that trick for real people so you can see the reactions and my actuall performing style.
Billy
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B_Bishop
New user
35 Posts
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Posted: May 29, 2012 12:27am
B1
I am so happy that you saw the flaw is the "Invisible Palm" plot. A tabled double ****ing sucks when you perform in rambunctious environments. It seems like I perform in the same places you do, drinking establishments where someone may knock a table and the double revealed.
Your version is technically sound and theatrically silly. Your hands are never far enough apart. you meet the intellectual needs and dismiss the emotional. This is a plot that is arbitrary and you would be better to abandon it. It isn't SO strong as to be remembered without apparatus. (If you were to create it, I would buy it.)
Signed,
Brett
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 29, 2012 10:04am
Brett,
My main concern is tabled anything is prone to getting wet or dirty, that's assuming a table is within reach. Also, as you mentioned a tabled double is not really practical in most enviorments, thanks for acknowledging this. The video, as I mentioned is without any of my "real" patter, rythem, or tempo. Its a diffrent animal all togather when actually performed. In fact, the last phase happens in the participants hands versus on the table....yet, this approaches to "too impossible" thereshold.
billy
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MagicofDesperado
Veteran user
357 Posts
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Posted: May 29, 2012 3:21pm
I personally don't like all the card handling at the beginning of the routine, busys everything up and detracts from the card moving across. Also you failed to let it sink in a bit and prematurely removed it IMO. I would also say slow down a bit. I think you're losing the wished for ultra visual nature of this effect by rattling through it. Though without patter, as noted, this is presumably not the real handling.
Dave
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 29, 2012 3:34pm
Dave,
You are 100% correct, the rythem-tempo-presentation are all off in the Youtube clip. It was just a demonstration of effect to determine if its original enough for my upcoming dvd of effects. This DVD has been put on the backburner so its a moot point, but I agree that the effect is flawed in the clip. Thanks for your response.
billy
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MagicofDesperado
Veteran user
357 Posts
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Posted: May 29, 2012 5:20pm
Your welcome! What motivated you toward a DVD product? I mean aside from capitalism:)
Just curious
Dave
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 29, 2012 5:52pm
Dave,
It really had nothing to do with capitalism, as I have never sold an effect. However, I was contacted to make a DVD with my effects for release. Since I have turned to mentalism as of late I figured it would bankroll that for awhile and also it would be nice to get some of my effects on paper or dvd for longevity. Yet, the DVD project is on hold due to creative diffrences and crediting, or lack there of. Also, living in magic seclusion (NW Iowa) it would be fun to see some people enjoy (or hate) my lil effects.
Billy
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MagicofDesperado
Veteran user
357 Posts
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Posted: May 29, 2012 6:39pm
Gotcha! You're primarily a restaurant/bar worker?
Dave
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: May 29, 2012 6:46pm
Dave,
Yes, for my close up work. Like I said, I have transitioned into mentalism, but before that I worked exclusivly at bars/restarurants (mainly bars). In addition to the above reasons, I have also became a bit disgusted by one trick non real world DVDs. I thought it would be nice to make a DVD with 8-10 real world effects and also impart real world ideas about how to interact with diffrent people from drunk college kids to children at resteraunts. But, like I said....it will have to wait until the right time with teh right people.
Billy
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: Jun 23, 2012 1:18pm
Just filmed a live performance, will be posting as soon as I figure out how to use Youtube or my wife gets off work. You will see the drastic differance in pace, due to interaction with people, and also get an idea of reactions.
Billy
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Billy-one
Special user
IOWA
929 Posts
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Posted: Jul 18, 2012 7:27pm
Yay,
Project is back on, will be posting more videos. If anyone feels my material has serious crediting issues, please let me know.
Billy
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