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kambiz
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1407 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 11:26am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-14 11:22, critter wrote:
Branching of religions into various sects is pretty normal.
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Critter, large scale schism in the Bahai Faith is not possible. Splinter groups may form here and there through the future, but just like the splinter groups that have formed throughout Bahai history, they all die out. There is and will only be one Bahai Faith
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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Woland
Special user
644 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 11:35am
Hi Kam,
You may be right, but then the Baha'i Faith has been around for less than 200 years. Let's see what happens after a millenium or two.
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critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 11:39am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-14 11:26, kambiz wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-05-14 11:22, critter wrote:
Branching of religions into various sects is pretty normal.
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Critter, large scale schism in the Bahai Faith is not possible. Splinter groups may form here and there through the future, but just like the splinter groups that have formed throughout Bahai history, they all die out. There is and will only be one Bahai Faith
Kam
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That's what the Catholics thought too.
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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kambiz
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1407 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 11:46am
Well yes, I am anticipating a lot here lol
However the traditional reasons for religious schism have been accounted for in the Faith, however the future is a mystery. I'm not a mindreader you know lol
I think all religions in the past had divided significantly within 200 years, so the outlook does look promising, if religious history as a whole is any guide to go by....
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 12:40pm
Now I ain't telling you what will or won't happen with your particular religion, because I don't know.
Just that the sort of thing mentioned wouldn't be weird from a historical perspective.
Personally, I don't mind there being so many different sects of Buddhism. I learn a lot from all of the different perspectives.
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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kambiz
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1407 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 9:52pm
Hi critter. You are correct in saying that the perspectives of other sects within a religion provide diversity in understanding the teachings. What must be understood however is that there is no need to divide the religion in order for that diversity and richness of understanding to still prevail. The world does not need more conflict.
There are many principles which guide the way the Bahai community conducts itself. Firstly, diversity of opinion, free thinking and creative understandings of the teachings is 100% encouraged in the Faith. In fact, spaces and environments are intentionally created for this purpose in all Bahai localities, and those learnings disseminated globally....
However, the most critical component is that "ambition" does not exist in the Bahai community. When you share a perspective or understanding on a specific teaching with others, you won't get any support at all from anyone if you go off and start a sect with that perspective. No one is a leader. There are no individual leaders in the Faith. The Bahai institutions are composed of individuals elected with no electioneering whatsoever, no "I'm better than her/him". The elected individuals serve in that institution due to their complete selflessness and humble posture of service to mankind, and for nothing else.....not for putting their best foot forward in the words that they utter, but rather for their spirit of servitude and exemplary deeds.
Now, if I can achieve those ideals, being a soul-less dentist becomes a pleasure 
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5846 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 10:28pm
Y'all are pro gay rights I take it, being enlightened and all.
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kambiz
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1407 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 10:35pm
Yes I know several gay Baha'is 
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5846 Posts
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Posted: May 14, 2012 10:50pm
Didn't ask you opinion cuz you are a way cool dude if one can get past the dentist thing. I know the answer by the way.
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tommy
Eternal Order
Devil’s Island
13335 Posts
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Posted: May 15, 2012 9:01am
Thanks Kam.
My understanding of the Hidden Words of Baha'u'llah above would not come from applying formal formal logic etc to it as I don't think that stuff works with trying to understanding of “Sacred” texts and things such love. For such I would apply “Sacred Science” which are methods of understanding that which is a mystery to normal science. Methods handed down from the Mystery Schools, out of the land of magic we now call Egypt.
i.e.
“Out of the clay of love I molded thee, how dost thou busy thyself with another?”
3
“A relationship must be established between opposing forces.
The establishment of relationship is , in itself, that third force.
One, in becoming Two , becomes Three simultaneously.
The 'becoming' is the third force, automatically providing the innate and necessary (and mysterious ) reconciling principle.
Here we come to an insoluble problem in both language and logic.
The logical mind is polar by nature and cannot accept or comprehend the principle of relationship .
Throughout history, scholars , theologians and mystics have been faced with the problem o f explaining the trinity in discursive language .
(Plato wrestle d manfully with it in hi s description of the 'world soul' ; to all but Pythagoreans it seems gibberish. )
Yet the principle of Three is easily applied to daily life where, again according to the nature of the situation, we apply a different
name .
Male/female is no t a relationship. For there to be relationship there mus t be 'love ' or a t least 'desire'.
A sculptor and a block of wood will not produce a statue . The sculptor must
have 'inspiration'. Sodium/chlorine is not in itself enough to produce a chemical reaction; there must be 'affinity'.
Even the rationalist, the determinist, pays unwitting homage to the principle: unable to account for the physical world through genetics and environment, he calls it 'interaction', which is a label applied to a mystery .
Logic and reason are faculties for discerning , distinguishing,
discriminating (note the Greek prefix di-, meaning two).” etc
The serpent in the sky : the high wisdom of ancient Egypt /
John Anthony West – Based on the works of Schwaller de Lubicz mainly.
The New World Oder use these methoods of the Mystery Schools. As Schwaller de Lubicz points out that normal science and sacred science can be used for good or evil. Beware the Pear Shaped Cretures!
My advice is you hold on tight to that wonderful thing you have called The American Constitution and Bill of Rights as it limits the power of the gods that walk the earth.
There are always three sides to a love story.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy
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kambiz
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1407 Posts
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Posted: May 15, 2012 10:04pm
Tommy your post above has made my heart dance with joy....it is totally rational and is an excellent exploration of this very concept. The concept of normal science and sacred science is the absolutely logical pathway towards bringing science and religion closer together and both becoming rational methodologies to explore both physical and metaphysical realities.
In my opinion, your post has pathed the way towards more co-operative exploration of these realities and has opened up many doors towards what I think is one of the true purposes of forums as a whole, namely, to explore mysteries, both spiritual and material, TOGETHER
The concept of the sun, the mirror and the rays of the sun is an avenue of study for me personally to explore the realitites of how God, the Holy Spirit and God's Physical Manifestation on earth in the form of a human being (i.e Jesus, Baha'u'llah, etc) inter-relate.
You know, from my understandings of reading religious scripture of all Faiths, I have come to the conclusion that there are infinite attributes of God. The human being is the embodiment of every attribute of God. Humans have the capacity to be "God-like", however, the one attribute that is present in every single thing in existence is LOVE. As you mention above, the capacity for atoms to interconnect is due to love (or affinity ) It is the most important of all virtues/attributes throughout the universe.
One thing to think about however, is that in the Baha'i Writings, it says "Truthfullness is the foundation of all human virtues"
Some thoughts to hopefully explore further with others
Thanks again tommy...
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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Woland
Special user
644 Posts
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Posted: May 15, 2012 10:16pm
Schwaller de Lubicz was an interesting fellow.
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5846 Posts
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Posted: May 15, 2012 11:46pm
I am starting a seperation sect of the Bhai Faith Bhai Believers. I am the Godhead.
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kambiz
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1407 Posts
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Posted: May 16, 2012 12:05am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-15 23:46, MagicSanta wrote:
I am starting a seperation sect of the Bhai Faith Bhai Believers. I am the Godhead.
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Mate, I'm coming on board, but I'll be the only one I'm afraid, but between the two of us we can rule the world !!!!! LOL
Kam
(ps. Mate, its Baha'i, not Bha'i )
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5846 Posts
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Posted: May 16, 2012 12:36am
I say tmoato you say tomato.
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kambiz
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1407 Posts
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Posted: May 16, 2012 12:38am
No I say matoto
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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kambiz
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1407 Posts
|
Posted: May 16, 2012 12:42am
....so whats the first step in our new sect?
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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LobowolfXXX
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1598 Posts
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Posted: May 16, 2012 1:14am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-15 22:04, kambiz wrote:
Tommy your post above has made my heart dance with joy....it is totally rational and is an excellent exploration of this very concept.
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Without doing a search, I'm going to go out on a speculative limb and guess that this is the first time that Tommy has been accused of being "totally rational.". I fear what this endorsement may do to your fledgling religion.
-DFO
"All I wanted to do was work with John for the rest of my life."
LSAT tutor & author of "LSAT 60 Dissected," available online.
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critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
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Posted: May 16, 2012 1:25am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-16 00:42, kambiz wrote:
....so whats the first step in our new sect?
Kam
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Having your marriage annulled so you can marry Anne Boleyn.
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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kambiz
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1407 Posts
|
Posted: May 16, 2012 1:35am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-16 01:14, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
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On 2012-05-15 22:04, kambiz wrote:
Tommy your post above has made my heart dance with joy....it is totally rational and is an excellent exploration of this very concept.
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Without doing a search, I'm going to go out on a speculative limb and guess that this is the first time that Tommy has been accused of being "totally rational.". I fear what this endorsement may do to your fledgling religion.
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Lobowolf, that's a pretty low blow mate. This atmosphere of elitism in these matters does not bode well towards the endorsements of the "elite"
Firstly, my endorsement of what tommy posted does not equate to the endorsement of the Bahai Faith. Not so rational when one concludes in that manner
Secondly, I'm interested to see what exactly in tommy's post was so irrational in your view?
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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LobowolfXXX
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1598 Posts
|
Posted: May 16, 2012 1:49am
I was actually referring more to his other 12,440 posts, but it was (at least half) in jest.
-DFO
"All I wanted to do was work with John for the rest of my life."
LSAT tutor & author of "LSAT 60 Dissected," available online.
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5846 Posts
|
Posted: May 16, 2012 1:49am
We shall only have songs based on The Monkees.
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kambiz
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1407 Posts
|
Posted: May 16, 2012 1:58am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-16 01:49, LobowolfXXX wrote:
I was actually referring more to his other 12,440 posts, but it was (at least half) in jest.
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I should've known better mate
Sometimes it's difficult to tell for sure I guess...especially online
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
|
critter
Inner circle
Spokane, WA
2334 Posts
|
Posted: May 16, 2012 2:00am
Off with their heads!
I throw stuff.
Follow Critter on Twitter: @Critterdun
Ichi-go ichi-e
"Courtesy is as much a mark of a gentleman as courage."
-Theodore Roosevelt
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mastermindreader
V.I.P.
Seattle, WA
6068 Posts
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Posted: May 16, 2012 2:32am
Kam-
Look at the two paragraphs near the end of Tommy's post to you:
Quote:
| The New World Oder use these methoods of the Mystery Schools. As Schwaller de Lubicz points out that normal science and sacred science can be used for good or evil. Beware the Pear Shaped Cretures!
My advice is you hold on tight to that wonderful thing you have called The American Constitution and Bill of Rights as it limits the power of the gods that walk the earth. |
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Only Tommy knows why he would advise you, an Australian, to hold on tight to the American Constitution and the Bill of Rights, or whatever that has to do with the New World Order conspiracy theory, is something only he can explain.
I've got to agree with Lobo.
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kambiz
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1407 Posts
|
Posted: May 16, 2012 2:42am
Hahaha......I was trying to "encourage" tommy to get back on the thread, by my post, to ask him to elaborate on that.
I guess another approach is to do it the way youve done it Bob, lol
So yes, there was a fair bit of yin and yang in your post tommy, care to elaborate??
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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LobowolfXXX
Inner circle
La Famiglia
1598 Posts
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Posted: May 16, 2012 3:19am
Kam -
You seem to me to have an "overly" (subjective personal impression) exuberant or accepting attitude in your posts which to my mind sacrifices some accuracy for the sake of goodwill, such as when you say that the post above is "totally" rational (despite the excerpt that Bob notes), or that religions that are obviously inconsistent in some respects are all "completely" true (though I would certainly agree, as Bob has, that they share a great deal of commonality).
It's not a bad thing; it's nice to have some people here who are almost entirely positive in their tone. It's just not a characteristic I share. Which is neither here nor there; I just wanted to point it out to clarify that probably in most cases where I seem to be disagreeing with you, it's likely to be a disagreement not with your general point, but with your wholesale buy-in to it.
-DFO
"All I wanted to do was work with John for the rest of my life."
LSAT tutor & author of "LSAT 60 Dissected," available online.
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MagicSanta
Inner circle
Northern Nevada
5846 Posts
|
Posted: May 16, 2012 3:20am
From Oklahoma! The musical;
Ohhhh the Muslim and the Hindu should be friends,
The Muslim and the Hindu should be friends
Islam doesn't want Jews around, Hindus welcome cattle in their town
But that's no reason why they can't be friend
Hut living folks should stick together hut living folks should be pals
Muslims pray East to Mecca the Hindu prays to a six armed gal!
Ohhhh the Jews and the Christian should be friends,
The Jewish and the Christian should be friends
And while the two are getting down
That's when the Budhist show up and get down
Their ain't no reason they can't be friends
So the core beliefs of of all can be mixed together
All their beliefs can be one
Write down some stuff each religion
Now you know how Bahai faith begun!
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kambiz
Inner circle
Perth, down by the cool of the pool
1407 Posts
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Posted: May 16, 2012 4:35am
Quote:
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On 2012-05-16 03:19, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Kam -
You seem to me to have an "overly" (subjective personal impression) exuberant or accepting attitude in your posts which to my mind sacrifices some accuracy for the sake of goodwill, such as when you say that the post above is "totally" rational (despite the excerpt that Bob notes), or that religions that are obviously inconsistent in some respects are all "completely" true (though I would certainly agree, as Bob has, that they share a great deal of commonality).
It's not a bad thing; it's nice to have some people here who are almost entirely positive in their tone. It's just not a characteristic I share. Which is neither here nor there; I just wanted to point it out to clarify that probably in most cases where I seem to be disagreeing with you, it's likely to be a disagreement not with your general point, but with your wholesale buy-in to it.
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Totally fair point Lobo lol
In all seriousness you do have a point, however, it must be said that the intended meaning behind some people's posts is difficult to ascertain while in an Internet forum. When I wrote that Tommy's post was totally rational, my intention was not to say that the entire content of that post was rational, but rather that there were components of it that were, if one were to grade rationality, of the highest degree. That was my intention with "totally rational", but I was not eloquent enough to point that out so clearly. Do you really think that when tommy asks me, an Australian to stick with the US constitution, that I took that to heart and starting studying the Constitution? I can be stupid sometimes, but that would surprise even me
In regards to the "completely agree" comment on religious unity, again, my point was that the Bahai standpoint is one where there is no spiritual demarcation between religions. There is only one Revelation of God, one Religion, the Religion of God. How then, can it be in competition with itself? The Bahai Faith is the most recent chapter in the Eternal Book of Gods Revelation.......it completely agrees with the pure condition of all religions, and not, I repeat not, with the fundamentalist and extremist interpretations of that Revelation, borne out of hatred, ambition, ego and exclusivity. So when I say "completely true" I am talking about the Sacred Word of God revealed in each Holy Book, not individual interpretations.
Hope that clarifies my position
Lastly, thankyou for your comment, I genuinely do appreciate the compassionate way you communicated it to me
Kam
If I speak forth, many a mind will shatter,
And if I write, many a pen will break.
.....and when I consider my own self, lo, I find it coarser than clay!
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Pakar Ilusi
Inner circle
4633 Posts
|
Posted: May 16, 2012 3:24pm
"Imagine" by John Lennon comes to mind right about now...
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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