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RSD
Special user
Toronto, Ontario
532 Posts
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Posted: May 20, 2012 8:50pm
I am looking for a spirit cabinet that is set on top of a base. I would like it to fit two people. Essentially, someone would sit on a chair in the cabinet. When the curtains are drawn, they would vanish into the base. Is there such an illusion ready built? If not, is there an existing illusion that I could modify to suit my needs?
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Pakar Ilusi
Inner circle
4804 Posts
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Posted: May 20, 2012 9:35pm
I'm working on something similar.
Construction wise...
Just build a wide base with legs really... 
"Dreams aren't a matter of Chance but a matter of Choice." -DC-
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Oliver Ross
Inner circle
Europe
1481 Posts
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Posted: May 21, 2012 7:18pm
The french illusion designer James Hodges put a few design ideas in his book called "Les grandes illusions - tome 1".
Oliver.
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magicboy7
New user
Chicago, IL
43 Posts
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Posted: May 23, 2012 3:09am
There are many versions, but the best source for the tie is in Tarbell. Not sure which volume. B____A__ is a great way to go . Lighting is critical but really a fooler and dosen't involve any additional props or weight.
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magicboy7
New user
Chicago, IL
43 Posts
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Posted: May 23, 2012 3:12am
Used this method on a cruise ship twenty years ago and really played and didn't look to prop heavy, just simple misdirection and a BA cave .
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Stu Turner
New user
London
73 Posts
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Posted: May 23, 2012 7:34pm
You should have a look at this Dave:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cr2zKCsbkdA
It's an illusion that our very own Paul Daniels did here in the UK back in the 90's.
Very slick and very good indeed.
Regards,
Stu
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john wills
Loyal user
288 Posts
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Posted: May 24, 2012 9:32am
Of course Stu, you are right. It's the beautiful illusion "O". Of course it's very slick and good, BUT it has not the solution RSD asked for. I don't think RSD is working in the same conditions as Paul Daniels.
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Blair Marshall
Inner circle
Montreal, Canada
3211 Posts
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Posted: May 24, 2012 12:36pm
John
"Oh"
B
Visit My Facebook Fan Page At
www.Facebook.com/BlairMarshallMontrealMagician
www.BlairMarshall.ca
www.ShaZzamShow.com
www.MontrealMagicien.com
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tristanmagic
Elite user
450 Posts
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Posted: May 24, 2012 12:40pm
Paul Daniels also performed a great spirit cabinet routine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFLlL96kUao
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RSD
Special user
Toronto, Ontario
532 Posts
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Posted: May 26, 2012 4:10pm
I am enjoying the ideas. That is exactly the effect I am looking for. That will be the finale of my spirit cabinet. However, yes my conditions will be completely different. And we all know what I mean.
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Dennis Loomis
1943 - 2013
2115 Posts
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Posted: May 28, 2012 10:32am
One must be careful in mixing magic effects together. I was a friend of Doug Henning and when he told me about his finale for the Water Torture Cell I didn't like it and told him so. (Doug was gone when the curtain was opened, and appeared on stage as the hooded guy with the ax who was ready to break the glass if Doug failed to escape.) For me, that turned it from an exciting and Death-defying escape into just another magic trick. Doug did it his way anyway. I've always felt that doing an Egg Bag Routine, you should not end by producing a shot glass of whiskey at the end. It's just completely unmotivated and unexpected.
So, the question is why do you want to vanish at the end of the Spirit Cabinet? If you have a good reason, which is communicated to the audience, then fine. But if not, then why bother to build and carry around a great big base? The Spirit Cabinet itself breaks down to a fairly compact piece to transport.
Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
http://www.loomismagic.com
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RSD
Special user
Toronto, Ontario
532 Posts
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Posted: May 28, 2012 5:19pm
Thanks for your notes Dennis - they are appreciated. However, the routine has been clearly thought out and planned for a while. Its not randomly inserted and it makes very much sense. As for mobility, its in my own theatre and will be stored there for the duration of this particular show.
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magicboy7
New user
Chicago, IL
43 Posts
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Posted: May 28, 2012 7:31pm
Dennis great to hear from you
Aloha
Jody
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Illucifer
Special user
894 Posts
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Posted: May 29, 2012 12:26am
The Spirit Cabinet is a mystifying and entertaining routine if properly performed. It's natural as magicians for us to want to give it some kind of 'kicker' like a vanish. This idea certainly crossed my mind, initially. Ultimately, I decided against it as I fell it works against the rest of the effect and routine, as Dennis wisely mentioned above. Will the audience be surprised and fooled by the vanish? If done well, then I'm certain they will. However, you risk undermining everything that came prior. When I perform the Cabinet, I want the audience absolutely convinced of the mediums immobility, and I go explain what's happening in great detail to be sure that they are as she is restrained by the volunteers. Cutting her loose at the end plays just as important a role in cementing this firmly in their minds. Were she to suddenly vanish, surprised though they may be, all my efforts regarding the bindings would be for naught.
It's all in the reflexes.
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Selcouth
New user
29 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2012 1:12pm
Is anyone able to clarify why Paul uses the front curtain and that particular method of tying the ropes? I can see no reason why he would require both in this routine.
As this is a question relating to method perhaps someone could PM me?
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Oliver Ross
Inner circle
Europe
1481 Posts
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Posted: Jun 2, 2012 9:10pm
I think Illucifer made a good point concerning the Spirit Cabinet with a vanish finale of the medium, aswell as the wise thought of Dennis. Personnally I wouldn't do it either.
Even though I don't perform the Spirit Cabinet I suggest to have a look at David Copperfield's "Barclay House Illusion". It's one of my favorits acts of him.Even though he vanishes 3 people from the audience to bring them finally back at the end of the act after doing himself a presentation of the Spirit Cabinet, you may notice that he, as the medium, isn't vanishing at all.
His act is very well thought out and I'm sure their is a reason, why he didn't made himself vanish to reappear at the end of the act. I'm sure aswell, that he and his illusion developement team thought about this and decided not to make David vanish, but to use the audience members instead as a sort of revenge from the spirits since he played with them along too much.
So my humble opinion is to not make the medium vanish at the end and try to find another nice finale for your illusion routine.
Good luck.
Oliver.
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RSD
Special user
Toronto, Ontario
532 Posts
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Posted: Jun 4, 2012 1:43pm
Threads like these, kind of tick me off. I didn't come in here asking if I should do it or not. I already made that decision. I came here asking if anyone knew of such a prop and design. One person, chimed in their opinion and suggested I not do it. I already responded saying that's not an option - and I did so politely. Two more of you come in to reinforce the posters OPINION not to do it. Thanks for your opinion - but no thanks. It kind of irks me that people seem to think they know my act better that I do. I didn't describe my act in its entirety, nor did I even say it was a "medium vanishing". I didn't disclose all the details for a reason. I didn't ask for your opinion of my act. Nor did I ask you if I should do it. To be honest - its kind of offensive.
Thanks to those who PM'd and posted here, answering the specific question that was asked. Your help is sincerely appreciated.
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Dennis Loomis
1943 - 2013
2115 Posts
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Posted: Jun 4, 2012 4:16pm
To RSD,
You're right. I, for one, did not answer the question you asked. I certainly did not mean to insult you, and I apologize if you took it that way. I was trying to help, but yes, I failed to respond to the question.
The answer is that I have not seen a prop such as what you describe offered for sale by a dealer, described in a book, or on a DVD. Most Spirit cabinets are very simple affairs, based on light-weight conduit or Plastic PVC tubing. Generally they have no floor at all, and certainly not a thick base. However, there is absolutely no reason why it could not be designed and built. There are many illusions in existence that have a thick base. If you check around, you may find one that you could adapt. If you don't feel up to the task of designing and building it, I would suggest that you contact Paul Osborne for the design, and then perhaps you can work with someone in your area to get it built. There is lots of information available on such bases, including many Paul Osborne designs, the Rand Woodbury DVDs, and lots of builders that could do it for you. Obviously John Gaughan, Bill Schmelk at Wellington, Owens or Bill Smith could do it, but their expertise and quality workmanship comes at a fairly steep price. (And worth every penny.)
I, for one, am curious about what you have in mind. It sounds like you have a NEW idea, at least. I jumped to the conclusion that it was a bad idea. Again, I'm sorry. Perhaps if you would like to describe your concept I can redeem myself somewhat by trying to help with the design, routining, or presentation. I assure you that I'm not interested in ripping off your concept. (I strictly do a one-man show these days.)
Incidentally, in designing the base, there's a great base design called a "Ball-Leg" base which you might consider. It's been used by most illusion builders and is very effectively used with some Costume Trunk designs. I know that Bruce Chadwick has used the concept. (He's another guy that could make your Spirit Cabinet concept for you.)
Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
http://www.loomismagic.com
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Oliver Ross
Inner circle
Europe
1481 Posts
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Posted: Jun 4, 2012 6:22pm
Hi RSD,
Please do excuse me if you think that I offended you by giving my opinion, even though you didn'y ask anyone to give their opinion about your idea. For sure we don't know your intentions, neither how your future Spirit Cabinet act will look like.
You're trying to come up with something totally different and we're all curious about. There are no rules when it comes to new things in magic and originality, but maybe that's what frighten us and gives us a reason to give you our opinions.
Anyway, and as Dennis already suggested, I think that you should seriously contact a very good illusion builder or illusion designer who could help you to bring your idea to life and tell you what will be possible and what not. Have them sign a discloser agreement so they won't take your ideas to develope something on their own, but this isn't always necessary. I once ontacted Bill Swmith by mail, telling him the design ideas I had for a few illusions and he came back to me with pictures of the illusions that he had build in the past using the same design idea. He's a very cool guy and could help you.
I think that the type of the base depends on the look of your "cabinet". For exemple I've seen a bathroom Spirit Cabinet act, from two italian illusionst (without a base).
So if you can't tell us a bit more without giving away too much, contact illusion builders or designers who could help you.
As I've told you already, James Hodges has some very interesting ideas in his books using a gothic style designs and tribal style designs. I'll send you a PM to give you a little bit more information.
Again, with all my apologizes, good luck.
Oliver.
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Oliver Ross
Inner circle
Europe
1481 Posts
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Posted: Jun 4, 2012 6:55pm
RSD,
I've tried to send you a PM, but it doesn't work ...
Oliver.
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tristanmagic
Elite user
450 Posts
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Posted: Jun 4, 2012 8:13pm
A Spirit cabinet using a B*s* or with hidden people in it has been done before.
It is the design & presentation/routine that can make it different from the rest!
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Dennis Loomis
1943 - 2013
2115 Posts
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Posted: Jun 4, 2012 8:40pm
To Tristanmagic,
Who did it before? I'm curious. I don't claim to know everything that's been done, but this was new to me. If you can share info about the details of what's been done, if may help RSD to avoid duplicating what some one else has already done.
Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
http://www.loomismagic.com
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tristanmagic
Elite user
450 Posts
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Posted: Jun 4, 2012 9:06pm
Jim Steinmeyer created a Spirit cabinet used by Kalin which sits on a base and while it doesn't use the base as such I heard at least one magician suggesting this design would be perfect for a h***** assistant.
Also Rafael created 2 versions of the Spirit cabinet: one using a base, one using another h****** place for a secret p****** for the Hans Klok show.
And I am sure there are more versions out there that we don't know about (Like Jan Rouvens version)
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Illucifer
Special user
894 Posts
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Posted: Jun 5, 2012 8:46am
RSD, I meant no offense. Simply sharing my experience.
You may want to have a look at Karl Germain's and David Berglas' work on the Cabinet.
They had some interesting approaches.
It's all in the reflexes.
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Dennis Loomis
1943 - 2013
2115 Posts
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Posted: Jun 5, 2012 9:38am
Thanks for the information, Tristan. I love the Café... I learn something new almost every time I log in.
Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
http://www.loomismagic.com
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Illucifer
Special user
894 Posts
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Posted: Jun 5, 2012 11:11am
Tristan, Jim's Cabinet is a classic Spirit Cabinet in every sense, which is the beauty of it. It does not lend itself to what you describe, nor is it intended to.
It's all in the reflexes.
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tristanmagic
Elite user
450 Posts
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Posted: Jun 5, 2012 11:18am
Illucifer,
With a slight modification (which William Kennedy can do without any mayor changes to it's design) it can be converted to H*** a extra person in the b***.
It might not be intended but it's possible!
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