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Zombie Magic
Inner circle
I went out for a beer and now have
6521 Posts
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Posted: Jun 16, 2012 9:43pm
They do that. The Magician made it clear that the card is in the middle of the deck. Maybe they even say..."your card is lost somewhere in the middle".
And then they say "I 'll give it a couple of cuts" or even "I'll give it a shuffle".
Why? It's lost somewhere in the middle.
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Steven Keyl
Inner circle
Washington, D.C.
1380 Posts
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Posted: Jun 16, 2012 9:46pm
Easy. "Place your card back in the middle of the deck somewhere... And just in case you think I'm keeping track of exactly where it is, we'll give them a quick mix to ensure that no one knows where it is."
Steven Keyl
Latest review:
The Art of Switching Decks
"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
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Count Lustig
Veteran user
308 Posts
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Posted: Jun 16, 2012 10:31pm
Quote:
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On 2012-06-16 21:43, Zombie Magic wrote:
...Why? It's lost somewhere in the middle.
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If you know that it's "somewhere in the middle," it's not really lost. Is it?
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Cameron Francis
V.I.P.
5898 Posts
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Posted: Jun 16, 2012 10:35pm
I put it in near the top and then say, "Let's cut it a little deeper into the deck..." So many ways of justifying this.
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Zombie Magic
Inner circle
I went out for a beer and now have
6521 Posts
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Posted: Jun 16, 2012 10:38pm
Quote:
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On 2012-06-16 22:35, Cameron Francis wrote:
I put it in near the top and then say, "Let's cut it a little deeper into the deck..." So many ways of justifying this.
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PERFECT! A true professional's thoughts.
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AlexB
New user
58 Posts
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Posted: Jun 16, 2012 11:52pm
Some particular tricks also allow for less generic justification.
For Jay Sankey's Back in Time, I was thinking of saying something like "There are many ways of shuffling a deck: you can give it a cut" (use it to control the card), "or a more thorough shuffle" (do an overhand shuffle), "or an even more thorough shuffle" (riffle shuffle), "but there is one shuffle that really messes the deck up, look" (slop shuffle). What do you guys think? Is that plausible justification for both the control and the rest of the trick?
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MeetMagicMike
Special user
Gainesville Fl
976 Posts
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Posted: Jun 17, 2012 12:06am
I don't think it needs any justification. "Lost in the middle" means you don't know exactly where it is but it is near the middle. After the cuts you presumably have no idea if it is. Makes perfect sense to me.
Magic Mike
MeetMagicMike.com
I took the Pledge
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Zombie Magic
Inner circle
I went out for a beer and now have
6521 Posts
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Posted: Jun 17, 2012 1:02am
My experience is that people think/know that gamblers and magicians manipulate cards. If it goes in the middle, it's in the middle. That's why the pass, or side steal, etc. is so deadly. If you start monkeying around with the deck, it dilutes what you do, in most instances. IMO.
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Vincero
Veteran user
New Zealand
373 Posts
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Posted: Jun 17, 2012 3:58am
Then surely the art becomes manipulating the audience instead of the cards; the spectator(s) shouldn't be aware that you've executed anything... Assuming that it's been done properly. As such, where the spectator has put the card becomes a meaningless detail. It's the magician's job to convince them that their slection has been "lost in the deck", no? Does the actual location of the card matter? Or are there more ways to skin a cat? - the success of this illusion (if not the vast majority of them) surely depends on the performer, and more specificaly, his ability to assess the nuances of his audience.
In a reality, most audiences probably don't even give it a second thought. Assuming their estatic reactions aren't out of pity alone.
Friendly food for thought.
Zac
"Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell; And in the lowest deep a lower deep
Still threat'ning to devour me opens wide, To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heav'n" -John Milton, (Paradise Lost)
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Steven Keyl
Inner circle
Washington, D.C.
1380 Posts
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Posted: Jun 17, 2012 11:15am
Quote:
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On 2012-06-17 01:02, Zombie Magic wrote:
My experience is that people think/know that gamblers and magicians manipulate cards. If it goes in the middle, it's in the middle. That's why the pass, or side steal, etc. is so deadly. If you start monkeying around with the deck, it dilutes what you do, in most instances. IMO.
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For some effects, a pass, shift or side steal can be an ideal solution. For the lion's share of effects, though, my experience differs decidedly from yours. With a casual shuffle or cut of the deck it can enhance the illusion that the cards position has been randomized so it's position is ostensibly unknown to everyone. The shuffle control I most commonly use doesn't remotely look like I'm "monkeying with the deck." Where things look most dodgy is when a shuffle looks too studied. It's clear in those cases that "something" is going on. The fix isn't to remove shuffle/cut controls from your repertoire but rather to find controls which allow one to move most naturally.
Steven Keyl
Latest review:
The Art of Switching Decks
"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
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jpleddington
Loyal user
Lake Tahoe/Reno, NV
213 Posts
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Posted: Jun 17, 2012 12:47pm
Quote:
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On 2012-06-16 21:43, Zombie Magic wrote:
They do that. The Magician made it clear that the card is in the middle of the deck. Maybe they even say..."your card is lost somewhere in the middle".
And then they say "I 'll give it a couple of cuts" or even "I'll give it a shuffle".
Why? It's lost somewhere in the middle.
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Why do they SAY they'll cut or shuffle, or why do they DO it?
As for why they do it -- that depends on the effect. Some effects are enhanced by a shuffle and a cut, others are weakened.
As for why they say it -- probably because they haven't really thought through what they're presenting. It's almost never necessary to say that you're going to shuffle and cut. Just do it. These are not mysterious actions with a deck of cards. They don't require commentary or justification. NOT shuffling and cutting is much more likely to require justification -- though, again, there are many cases where it doesn't (e.g., an ACR, where shuffling or cutting would obviously destroy the effect).
Jason
Intelligent Magic and Mentalism
jasonleddington.com
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cirrus
Inner circle
his minions made
1477 Posts
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Posted: Jun 17, 2012 2:23pm
After they have selected a card, I let them put back the card, Then I let them shuffle and cut the deck, then I name the card. Easy as pie.
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Justin W.
Loyal user
222 Posts
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Posted: Jun 17, 2012 2:49pm
If it's such a problem, then let them shuffle. There ya go.
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paisa23
Inner circle
7 years no smoking. And counting
6384 Posts
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Posted: Jun 17, 2012 3:14pm
IMO I feel that if they are willing to watch and effect then they are open to let themselves enjoy the effect. We think to much like a magish on these things. Just like when you ask someone to Cut the deck and complete the cut, they think that they mixed the cards. Even if they know that we manipulate cards they don't really understand How. so for me I swing cut place it in the middle or just place it in the middle and shuffle. IF ANYTHING ill "Look, even though you know that I know that it is in the middle, I don't want you to know that I might know where in the middle it really is, you see? So let me mix the cards up a little more so neither one of us know where it really is." Even if it doesn't make sense you have now got them involved in the shenanigans that are about to ensue. Anyway you look at it when you show the double(DEPENDING ON THE EFFECT) that should get rid of all disbelief that you still know where it is. If not then you have other problems lol.
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NicholasD
Inner circle
1017 Posts
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Posted: Jun 17, 2012 4:27pm
Don't say "middle". If you must say something, say "please put it back". Most of the time, I don't say anything about where the card is going. The spectator can see that it's back in the deck. Engage them with another thought and they won't have time to think much about it.
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Vincero
Veteran user
New Zealand
373 Posts
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Posted: Jun 18, 2012 12:16am
Quote:
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On 2012-06-17 14:49, Justin W. wrote:
If it's such a problem, then let them shuffle. There ya go.
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As Steven Youell has suggested: make a habit out of peeking every selection. Then if the spectator wants to shuffle (or if you think it best they shuffle), then they can.
"Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell; And in the lowest deep a lower deep
Still threat'ning to devour me opens wide, To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heav'n" -John Milton, (Paradise Lost)
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Steven Keyl
Inner circle
Washington, D.C.
1380 Posts
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Posted: Jun 18, 2012 9:18am
The answer to the OP's question seems to be getting skewed. The question is NOT what to do if someone asks to shuffle. The question was why shuffle and/or cut after you cleanly place the card into the middle of the deck. And my answer to that question remains the same...it's context specific. Sometimes a pass is the best solution, sometimes it isn't.
Steven Keyl
Latest review:
The Art of Switching Decks
"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
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