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Seth Special user 566 Posts |
Aaahhh, the dilemma. I've decided to bite the bullet and get off my lazy behind and memorize a stack. Which one would you guys recommend?
The thing I guess the aronson stuff has going for it is that there is more published material for it and it thereby seems to be a more standard. The Tamariz appeals to me because of the ability to get into it from New Deck Order. I guess I just wanted to ask you guys which you'd recommend. Also are there any built in effects in Tamariz's stack like there are in Aronson's Also I read that Andrew Wimhurst opined that most built in effects were generally stuff that is better accomplished by sleight of hand. Am curious as what you guys think of this. |
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Pablo Tejero Inner circle Zaragoza, SPAIN 1201 Posts |
Well, I think that you could find more useful info about Aronson stack in english than if you tried with Tamariz stack.
Tamariz stack is great but has two problems, one for the spanish users, and other for the english users. The problem here in Spain is that everybody uses Tamariz stack, and when I mean everybody I really mean EVERYBODY. That´s the reason why I use Martin Joyal stack. The other problem is for the non-spanish talkers is that to use full Tamariz stack you must read his big book "Sinfonica en Mnemonica Mayor". But it´s only in spanish. And if you want to use plenty this stack you must read the whole book. I use Martin Joyal´s stack. Easy to remember, and very useful too. And about what my friend Andrew said... well I have to agree with him. Most tricks with a memorized deck, could be done with a pair of sleight of hands. But.. you choose! All the best magic, Pablo Tejero
"The Magic is in the air, you just have to... breathe it!"
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david_a_whitehead Inner circle USA 2122 Posts |
I use the aronson stack. my reasons:
1. It was the first memorized deck I was exposed to. 2. It has a lot of published work on it, 4 books by Mr. Aronson, as well as work by Michael Close. 3. I like the built in poker/bridge/spelling deals associated with it. 4. I don't use a new deck when doing tricks usually, so I don't have to worry about getting into the stack from NDO. I usually just have two or three decks stacked before a sitting. 5. I have a ton of respect for Simon Aronson's thinking and genius. He is one of the few magicians that I have come across in reading that is truly a genius and you can totally tell by some of the stuff he has come up with (i.e. His stack, his Undo Influence, his Shuffle-Bored etc) All these effects are well thought out and an in depth mathematical proof is given in addition showing just how intelligent the man is. He is the ultimate thinking magician. It took me three weeks to learn his stack proficiently. I was very comfortable using it after about 2 months. It is in my opinion the closest you can get to genuine mind reading with a deck of cards - far superior to any cyclical stack. I have had no experience with the Tamariz stack so I can't comment on that one. |
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JimMaloney Inner circle 1184 Posts |
Just about any effect that relies on a memorized deck as its method can be done with any stack. Any extra features, like spelling or poker deals are just that -- extra. So, unless there are certain things you're looking for in a deck, you can just take any deck, shuffle it, and memorize the order it ends up in.
-Jim
Books and Magazines for sale -- more than 200 items (Last updated January 17th, 2014. Link goes to public Google Doc.)
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david_a_whitehead Inner circle USA 2122 Posts |
The one major benefit of memorizing a published stack is ease of reading though. the instructions included in a lot of aronson's mem deck tricks have him referring to his own stack. he will state at the beginning "this trick can be done with any memorized deck" but then as he gets into explanations he refers more and more to his numbering of the stack. this makes the reading a lot easier to follow if you are using HIS stack. plus, some of the most devastating tricks (ala "Histed Heisted" from his Bound to Please) while not needing a particular memorized deck, works far better with certain ones. this trick can't work with Joyal's stack, though with some minor adjustments, it can. but like was stated in another thread, some features of certain stacks are more beneficial. so it is not my recommendation to go shuffle a deck and memorize it. I think you should definitely go with a published version. my main goal is to fool laypersons, not magis.
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
I don't have any experience with the Tamariz stack, but I do know that you can shuffle into any stack from any order. I find no use for shuffling into memorized decks from new deck order because how often do you set up into new deck order just to get into a differnt one? Of course if you use a brand new deck then that's a differnt story but I find it's best not to since I like to break cards in a little before their use.
As for what I said of shuffling into any stack it just takes a few culls. I'm still working on my method but hopefully it should be done soon. I know of a Café member who has made his own method but he said it's a lot of culls and shuffling. I use the Aronson stack for few reasons: 1)Simon Aronson has a lot of memorized deck tricks in print that are very good and deceiving. 2)You can do Shuffle Bored from his stack. 3)A lot of people in my area use it and have shown me effects possible with it and it inspired me to memorize it. 4)The poker deal in it is very good and I'm hoping soon I will make a trick using his poker deal. Of course it would be a longer poker deal than just dealing out the cards. I say use the Aronson but I know people will not have the same oppinion. Even if you memorize a different stack I would still take a look at Simon Aronson's work as it is very good. |
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Nick Pudar Veteran user 369 Posts |
I learned both the Joyal stack and the Aronson stack, but I am more "fresh" with the Aronson stack -- I do like the poker deals that are incorporated. I agree with what was written above, but I must also add that the best memorized deck is the one you will use -- in other words, any one will do. However, having access to the special features will be a determining factor.
Nick http://www.stackview.com
Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
www.stackview.com Version 5.0 is available! |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Whichever stack you choose, I highly recommend the afore-mentioned Simon Aronson's Bound to Please. An incredible steal at $35 from his site simonaronson.com. I'm not going to push any one stack as the best, but I think after you read this book, you'll gravitate to the Aronson stack.
Jack Shalom
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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david_a_whitehead Inner circle USA 2122 Posts |
Jack, you should check out simon's latest effort...Try the Impossible. Even better than Bound to Please.
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TJ Newton New user Oregon Coast 60 Posts |
Great posts guys! I say go with the Aronson stack Seth. Any stack you do is going to be a good one as long as you use it. The facts are that there is indeed a lot more information published using the Aronson.
The question you need to ask yourself is whether or not you want to entertain the masses or other magicians. If you want to entertain magicians... learn a stack that no-one knows and keep it a secret. If you want to entertain the masses... go with the one that has the most work published with it. It will help in the long run because you aren't trying to reinvent the wheel. Hope this helps! I'm still learning the Aronson stack myself. |
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Mito Veteran user Japan 319 Posts |
Quote:
On 2003-12-01 22:29, david_a_whitehead wrote: Is that right? I've been wondering which one to get first (I'll eventually get them both). Whichever one's lighter on the memorization techniques (already know it) and heavier on the effects... |
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david_a_whitehead Inner circle USA 2122 Posts |
Bound to please has the techniques, try the impossible doesn't. try the impossible has the effects that kkep the stack in order as well as a few more. the big bonus is his undo influence that is in try the impossible. bound to please of course is also excellent. histed heisted and shuffle bored are worth more than double the book
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Dennis Loomis 1943 - 2013 2113 Posts |
I use the Aronson stack, although I started with Nikola.
Everyone mentions the Poker Deals built into the Aronson Stack. But, there's a great bridge deal, a black jack demonstration, and the ability to spell to a block of any of six cards that are all very handy. The fastest memorized deck to learn is Doug Dyment's Quickstack. And, in case you didn't know, the Tamiriz book is due to be released in English fairly soon. Many of us are anxiously awaiting it's release. But take it from me... don't buy one of Simon's books. Buy them all. Dennis Loomis http://www.loomismagic.com
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com |
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10cardsdown Special user Out There Somewhere 664 Posts |
Build your own. Decide which effects you want to build into a stack, then arrange your own. It'll have a lasting impression when you use your own. I'd also look into a Tetradistic stack idea. Great benefits on effects. Good luck!
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Breather Elite user 447 Posts |
I second the use of a tetradistic stack - Ackerman's Opener utilises this, which is a brilliant routine. Very very strong.
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Seth Special user 566 Posts |
Yikes...what's a tetradistic stack?
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
It's like the Si Stebbins stack along with many others. There's a sort of pattern that goes along with it that when a few faros are given it brings all four of a kinds together. I like the idea in Allan Ackerman's Routine but I think the second version included in Las Vegas Kardma is better.
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Magicmike1949 Special user 643 Posts |
I'd say Aronson, but others are fine. Whitehead has stated the reasons quite well above.
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Ed Oschmann Inner circle Lake Worth FL 1011 Posts |
A tetridistic stack might make memorizing a stack a bit easier but considering the work that men like Aronson and Tamariz have put into their respective stacks I think memorizing either or both is the way to go.
Click here to view attached image. |
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Close.Up.Dave Inner circle Behind you! 2956 Posts |
Some tricks don't work with Aronson's or Tamariz's or any non tetridistic stacks, but some tricks don't work with tetridistic stacks. An advantage of tetridistic stacks is that they are easy to learn and go in a certain sequental order. An advantage of a stack like Aronson's is that it looks comepletely shuffled yet it has a lot of features built in. I would say Aronson's as before but I also like the idea of memorizing a deck with your own features built in. Makes it a lot easier than doing tricks that someone else prefers. Either way I've had much success with the Aronson and I reccamend it.
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