DIRTY RATS... just saw a rip off of the Linking Finger Ring set I created made by Porper on eBay and less than half price.

Are you just finding out about this? I have seen ads for that set a year ago that was selling for $75 and it used the same photo as the AmazeRing product. Heck I have already seen a ripoff for the new David Regal set.

This piracy is ridiculous and must stop, but it can only happen if the idiots that buy the knock-offs stop buying them, and they must understand that creators will not keep creating and releasing these things if it does not stop.

I only saw this one by accident, as I don't look for this stuff. Sadly nothing can be done to stop them. And SADDER is the JERKS that buy the rip offs.

That is exactly why it always bothers me to hear "magicians" complain about the high price of quality apparatus.

I am sure Pete can attest to the idea that guys like Porper often spend THOUSANDS in designing prototypes. The same is for drug companies. They are in the hole for millions for research and design before they make a single penny. And their hard work is knocked-off and sold by idiots who didn't invest any of their time, energy, or money.

But it will continue because there are more people who neither care nor understand about the big picture than there are who get it.......

This is why I like to buy from Joe Porper.

Algebraic... sadly there are so many that don't understand the creative process, the time and money spent on R&D.

Well-said Pete! Sadly, this phenomenon exists in every field and faction of marketing/manufacturing/designing, and seemingly none more so than in magic.

Pete:

As you know, I own several of the items that you designed and Joe Porper manufactured, and, as I have stated here, I've RAVED about the quality of those Biro/Porper productions.

As to the knock-offs, let me say this:

We magicians have ONLY OURSELVES TO BLAME for this problem...

As long as magicians ACTIVELY SEARCH FOR AND BUY CRAP AT CRAP PRICES..........there will always be shady characters who will make the knock-offs and sell them.

I have said this before and I will say this again: Please DO NOT support knock-offs!!! The quality of any item remains long after the price is forgotten....

Those who support knock-offs DESTROY innovations in magic props.

Thank you - well stated.

Clearly there are some people actually aware of the great points being made here, people that know high quality products have no equal and truly know no price. Companies like Owen Magic, The Magic Company (Michael Baker) and Joe Porper, Auke Van Dokkum and Rings N Things would not exist if it were not for those kinds of people.

The problem is, the idiots that buy the crappy knock-off products undermine the whole purpose, the hard work and the willingness to share of these companies and their craftsmen and as has been mentioned before, we will unfortunately always be plagued by the existence of said idiots. There are plenty of solutions to weed those rats out but unfortunately they are not really practical for the craftsman trying to earn an honest living.

In short: If you buy junk you will have exactly that - polish a turd, it is still a turd. I for one do not mind paying the prices for the quality products that I get from the aforementioned craftsmen, among others, because I know what I am getting will be good and it will last me well beyond my lifetime. If it is a product you will use even only once - or perhaps you got it for a collection/display and not for use - there is no way to put a price on something like that. A good example of best-of-the-best craftsmanship commanding good price for quality is anything from Thayer.

My best advice to the quality magic creators - whom I advise to take it for whatever it means to anyone - is to hold their heads high no matter how hard it may be. Eventually, the purveyors and users of the knock-offs will fade away because nothing great can ever come of the low-grade parade of fools that they all turn into whereas your quality products (or those that you do release) will survive for the ages.

Dr.Ayala:

A M E N !

Pete Biro: I hope and pray that guys like you and Joe Porper never will give up!

Who makes a good set of rings? I've seen Ninja rings. Are they good?

Contact Shoot Ogawa for the good Ninja Rings.

I believe the actual Ninja Rings are unavailable these days (sold out), but if anybody would have any sets left, it would indeed be Shoot Ogawa. Occasionally you might find a used set for sale and if you do - scoop it up at whatever price!

@Pete: Is Joe still working on producing his 5" set? If not, my mistake: I thought I remember hearing that he was at least contemplating that at one point.

Alright, so let's say the Ninja rings are unavailable. In order of preference, who would you buy from after that? Mikame? Matthew Garrett?

Porper did not make five inch rings. He felt it might hurt Shoot's sales. Are you sure Shoot is out of them?

Thanks for the correction.



The last I heard, he was the only one that had any left because of the popularity.

By the way - that Fantasma set is actually decent and works really well for the Ninja Rings routine - at least by my experience.

Yeah- Shoot's Ninja Ring package is a great deal. His rings are very nice quality. The ninja ring routine is a very nice closeup ring routine-well worth the practice. I picked up a set last year and I'm glad I did.
His website holyshoot.com doesn't seem to be working right. You can contact him thru facebook pretty easily though.

I am looking for a set of Gold coloured ninja rings. just going to buy matthew garrett ninja+

Hey Wally, your PM is shut off!