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Peace_2_Ya
New user
10 Posts
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Posted: May 31, 2002 5:23pm
Hey everybody,
I was wondering what everybody thinks of "mutanz".
I am just curious.
Thanks,
Peace_2_YA 
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Magic Tim
New user
Texas
40 Posts
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Posted: May 31, 2002 9:27pm
I've seen "mixed reviews" for Mutanz, in that some [magicians] complain that by ending with gaffed cards that the spectators are allowed to examine, a trade secret is unnecessarily exposed; others say that because the gaffed cards are an inherent part of the effect's meaning and storyline, they do no harm.
I happen to side with the second group and have Mutanz sitting around here somewhere, but just haven't found the time to start working on it yet. It's no "self-working miracle" but I truly believe the effort required to master it is worthwhile.
Hope that helps...
Tim
http://www.timwallacemagic.com
“I find your lack of faith disturbing.” -- Darth Vader
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Peace_2_Ya
New user
10 Posts
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Posted: May 31, 2002 9:31pm
Thanks, I just bought it today and I was somewhat disappointed. I really havent tried
working it though. and I too have seen mixed reviews. Thanks again.
Peace_2_YA
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Greg Arce
Inner circle
5413 Posts
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Posted: May 31, 2002 10:43pm
I agree with Tim. I think it's a fine effect, but I'm still trying to figure out what kind of presentation I'll give it. Using the double backers as an ending doesn't bother me in the least. In the past I did the Coins of Ishtar and would do a "fusing of the coins" bit that would leave a copper/silver coin in the spectator's hands. They saw it as a strange magic moment because they had never seen a coin such as that one. I would chuckle inside as they held onto the very gimmick that allowed me to perform the routine. I would end by taking the coin and splitting it back magically... but this time the half dollar was copper and the English penny was silver.
Greg
Check out CASH OUT! & The Arce Arsenal at www.freestylebooktest.com/cashout
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Garrett Nelson
Special user
644 Posts
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Posted: May 31, 2002 11:00pm
I think it is overly complicated and long for the effect created. But that is just my preference. I would love to see it performed well, which I have not.
Perhaps that would sway my opinion of it.
I believe Paul is a fan of the effect if my memory serves me. Even if I am mistaken, I am sure he knows about it as he is a packet trick fan.
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Paul
Inner circle
A good lecturer at your service!
4205 Posts
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Posted: Jun 1, 2002 4:11am
Yep, it is a gem. I comment initially that playing cards are like people, they all have their own personalities, we get ambitious cards, nervous cards but for the next experiment I am going to use the most dangerous card in the deck. It is a mutant card.
It plays VERY strongly. It appears long because of the repeat phase, you do the same thing three times before heading off in another direction. I make a big thing of repeating it, saying have you noticed magicians NEVER repeat their tricks, because people know what is about to happen and watch like hawks,I then add, "as I was saying" and do it again as slow as possible, slowly turning the hands back and forth showing the situation of the cards.I then say I will do it one final time but they will not catch me doing anything because it is not me, it really IS the cards that are mutating. I do the down the sleeve bit referring to X-Men characters etc. then look at them saying, "I know what you're thinking, you're thinking WHAT is he on? Until I show you it REALLY DID come back to the packet."
I build up the ending."Now making a card come back to the packet whilst I hold the cards is one thing, but if I could make one come back while you are holding it that would be INCREDIBLE wouldn't it?" (they agree) Once they agree I get them to hold their palm out and place a card on, then I say I will make it EVEN MORE impossible and make TWO of the cards (naming the values)come back and show and add the second card and get then to place their other hand above trapping them. I clearly show my cards then place my other hand on top. I stand back and face the spectator, cautioning him to keep his hands tightly together. I recap I am going to end up with all four of the mutant kings (or whatever they are).
I move my top hand slightly. I ask if the spectator saw anything, I ask if the spectator felt anything. I show what I have, and tell him he can no longer have his, the cards are starting to mutate again. It gets a killer reaction! I have told them they are going to see something incredible and impossible and by golly they believe they have!
The cards have all been so cleanly shown back and front throughout the routine the spectator involved genuinely believes the cards have changed in his hands.
Anybody who performs this well will get a great reaction. I can only assume the people who have not given it good reviews have simply read it but not gone out and tried it on real people. I always carry this now when doing walk around.
It's quickly reset.
It's examinable.
The final magic happens in their hands.
Roy Walton's Cascade was a good effect anyway, but the subtleties and thinking of Bob Farmer lead people further down the garden path then remove the garden so their is no way back.
I would say never be disappointed with anything unless you've tried it. Well, except for sheep's eyes or something.
Paul.
"Mentalism With Cards" will soon be out of print. "The Tree of Knowledge" is out now!
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Magic Tim
New user
Texas
40 Posts
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Posted: Jun 1, 2002 9:38am
Paul,
That's really some quality material you've shared there -- Thanks for being so generous with your creativity!
Tim
http://www.timwallacemagic.com
“I find your lack of faith disturbing.” -- Darth Vader
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Greg Arce
Inner circle
5413 Posts
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Posted: Jun 1, 2002 12:38pm
Thanks, Paul. Now you've forced me to think of my own routine since there is no way I'll use your creation.
Greg
Check out CASH OUT! & The Arce Arsenal at www.freestylebooktest.com/cashout
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P T Flea
Regular user
Engelfield Green, nr Staines - innit
194 Posts
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Posted: Jun 1, 2002 12:59pm
Sorry to be completely ignorant, but can someone fill me on in the effect please?
Cheers
PT
Good judgement comes from bad experience, and a lot of that comes from
bad judgement.
   
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Paul
Inner circle
A good lecturer at your service!
4205 Posts
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Posted: Jun 1, 2002 1:06pm
Use it my way if you want, I have really added little except emphasis at certain points.
Paul Hallas.
"Mentalism With Cards" will soon be out of print. "The Tree of Knowledge" is out now!
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Greg Arce
Inner circle
5413 Posts
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Posted: Jun 1, 2002 1:07pm
PT, I'll PM you the stats on this effect. It's a pretty cool thing to do to spectators.
Greg
Check out CASH OUT! & The Arce Arsenal at www.freestylebooktest.com/cashout
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Dave Le Fevre
Inner circle
UK
1483 Posts
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Posted: Jun 5, 2002 6:09am
Thanks for sharing your presentation, Paul.
I love it, and I shall plagiarise it shamelessly.
Dave
The Ozzy Osbourne of the 34x27
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blurr
Regular user
144 Posts
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Posted: Jun 5, 2002 7:33am
The effect is beautiful. But I find that their are too many moves. I can't remember them all. Does anyone have suggestions for that?
Blurr
"Someday men will look back and say I was the start of the 20th century."
---Jack the Ripper
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Paul
Inner circle
A good lecturer at your service!
4205 Posts
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Posted: Jun 5, 2002 7:58am
Too many moves and can't remember them all?
I think you simply need to practice more until you've learnt the trick. Once you remember the moves, THEN you've learnt the mechanics and can work on the presentation.
Let's face it, if you can't remember the moves for one trick how do you remember an entire act? It's mostly the same move repeated, you just have to remember the first face up count is an incomplete Elmsley.
Nobody becomes a good magician without a little effort, despite what a lot of the dealer adverts imply, stick with it Blur and you'll have a little miracle.
Paul.
"Mentalism With Cards" will soon be out of print. "The Tree of Knowledge" is out now!
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Platt
Inner circle
New York
1687 Posts
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Posted: Jun 5, 2002 9:19am
A lot of moves. A bit confusing. And even though you end with examinable cards, they're still obviously magic props. Why not just do jumping gemini? Just my opinion.
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
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Geoff Williams
Special user
St. Pete Beach, FL
606 Posts
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Posted: Jun 5, 2002 11:18am
I'll have to side with Paul on this one (as if he needs MY help). I've been playing with Mutanz for several weeks now and have found it to be a fun routine to perform.
My patter is that the red Queens are otherworldly, mutating shapeshifters. They are alien-like in their ability to influence other cards ("That's why I've removed these Queens from four decks. By the way, the other cards have expressed their sincere thanks to me for isolating these...mutants.")
My patter is delivered in a half-whisper and has a very "X-Files" feel to it. I look around nervously at the beginning of the routine as if government agents might be spying on me, ready to silence me for letting this heinous secret become public knowledge.
The "alien" aspect works quite nicely for the exceptionally-strange ending.
Have fun with it. I sure do.
"Saját légpárnás tele van angolnák."
(Hungarian for "My hovercraft is full of eels")
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Paul
Inner circle
A good lecturer at your service!
4205 Posts
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Posted: Jun 5, 2002 1:04pm
Quote:
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On 2002-06-05 09:19, Platt wrote:
A lot of moves. A bit confusing. And even though you end with examinable cards, they're still obviously magic props. Why not just do jumping gemini? Just my opinion.
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Platt, there are not a lot of moves like in "a lot of different moves". The "effect" is not confusing, in fact it couldn't be cleaner or clearer. Suggesting doing Jumping Gemini instead is like suggesting stopping doing Gambler vs. Magician routine and cutting the four aces instead.
Paul.
"Mentalism With Cards" will soon be out of print. "The Tree of Knowledge" is out now!
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Platt
Inner circle
New York
1687 Posts
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Posted: Jun 5, 2002 2:42pm
Whoa, easy Paul. The fact that I think the effect is a bit confusing is a personal opinion, not a hard fact. I believe I even stated that in my message. And if you look at previous messages, I'm not alone in that thinking. I like crystal clear, short and sweet effects that can be summed up in one sentence. ie- The red card turned blue. Or the card kept coming to the top. To me, anything more is a bit less. As for my suggestion of Jumping Gemini, I think it's in the same basic camp- a packet of cards change in front of your eyes. Only IMHO Jumping Gemini is a much simpler and stronger premise. Something about leaving the spectator with examinable trick cards is more wierd than awe inspiring.
In the words of Dennis Miller:
"That's just my opinion, I could be wrong."
Sugar Rush is here! Freakishly visual magic. http://www.plattmagic.com
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joker808
New user
62 Posts
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Posted: Jun 13, 2002 10:38am
I think more credit to the lay audience should be thought about before performing this effect. Once you expose the cards in the final phase of this trick many if not all would merely have to think a bit on this to come to the right conclusion as to how many of the phases were accomplished. So don't be surprised if someone, and believe me they're out there, says "oh, so that's how they turned over." After all, you're the one who basically showed them how its done.
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Geoff Williams
Special user
St. Pete Beach, FL
606 Posts
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Posted: Jun 13, 2002 2:22pm
Actually, confusion is more than likely due to poor handling and presentation than the effect itself which can be summed up "What one Queen does, the others do likewise."
And "leaving the spectator with examinable trick cards" was also a common complaint (at first) with Doc Eason's "Anniversary Waltz" but anyone who's tried that can attest to the magical moment it creates. In the four years I've been performing AW, I've never had anybody say "Oh, I get it! Trick cards!"
Handled correctly and with a clear and concise presentation, "Mutanz" is a real stunning piece of entertainment.
Recommended.
"Saját légpárnás tele van angolnák."
(Hungarian for "My hovercraft is full of eels")
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Paul
Inner circle
A good lecturer at your service!
4205 Posts
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Posted: Jun 13, 2002 2:30pm
Platt said;
Only IMHO Jumping Gemini is a much simpler and stronger premise. Something about leaving the spectator with examinable trick cards is more wierd than awe inspiring.
and Joker808 said;
the cards in the final phase of this trick many if not all would merely have to think a bit on this to come to the right conclusion as to how many of the phases were accomplished.
Personal choice, I KNOW how this trick plays for me in walk around situations, stronger than Jumping Gemini, and better from an in the hands point of view. I cannot see where there is any confusion in cards turning face up and then turning face down. Unless you perform for people that get confused turning from one TV channel to another  As for Joker's remarks this is simply not true, there is no way they can backtrack because they have seen the backs and fronts of all the cards several times slowly and cleanly, four faces, four backs. They truly believe those cards have somehow changed whilst in their hands and the reaction is amazing. Quite frankly, I would be quite happy for NO-ONE else to use this.
So for people just scrolling through these messages, DO NOT BUY MUTANZ, IT IS AN AWFUL TRICK.
Paul.
http://members.madasafish.com/~phmagic
"Mentalism With Cards" will soon be out of print. "The Tree of Knowledge" is out now!
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joker808
New user
62 Posts
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Posted: Jun 13, 2002 3:17pm
Well, lets just say this, they may not be able to back-track the entire effect but they can sure make a determination that the cards make this trick tick and they'd be right.
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Paul
Inner circle
A good lecturer at your service!
4205 Posts
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Posted: Jun 13, 2002 6:11pm
re;
they can sure make a determination that the cards make this trick tick and they'd be right.
??
But they don't!So they wouldn't be right!
The trick cards do not make the trick work. The performer makes the trick work. Eg the original routine "Cascade" does not use these trick cards and accomplishes the same. These cards simply allow extra subtleties and a different ending.
Well, its the cards AND the performer that make ANY card trick tick, and I'm sure spectators can make that determination about any card trick, but it doesn't mean they have a clue how it was done. Put all the cards in the spectators hands and they would still not be able to figure it out, so suggesting the spectators think these cards have something to do with how the trick is done is along the same lines as a spectator dismissing any card trick as sleight of hand.
Spectators DO NOT think these "special" cards have been used all along at all. They really think they have somehow changed. I have used this effect many times. I wonder how many times you have used it before discarding it?
I judge how good an effect is from the response it gets, for me it gets an amazing response. But different tricks suit different performing styles. If you are a fast worker or a purist it won't suit you. Do I care? No! I'm not on commission, I don't sell it, I don't know Bob Farmer.
I pointed out this was a good trick, I hardly expected to be defending it this much. Use what works for you, I will use this. I will say no more on it.
Paul.
"Mentalism With Cards" will soon be out of print. "The Tree of Knowledge" is out now!
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Scott F. Guinn
Inner circle
FINALLY A DADDY!
6480 Posts
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Posted: Jun 13, 2002 6:42pm
What it boils down to is that even fairly bad tricks can be made into seeming miracles in the hands of someone with excellent performing skills and a belief in the effect, while even the best, strongest effects can be made boring by someone with no showmanship or someone who doesn't believe in the effect.
If you don't believe in the impact of the trick or its premise, don't do it! If you do, fire away!
At any rate, I think we've had more than enough comments from both the "pro" and the "con" camps on this one for people to make an informed buying decision.
Thanks to all who posted.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn (Finally a daddy!) @ScottFGuinn
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