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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1927 Posts |
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On May 7, 2018, ixnay66 wrote: Not so sure about that. For example, Vernon and Faucett Ross published in 1932 a 30 page booklet: “Ten Card Problems”, known nowadays as “The $20 Manuscript”, and sold it for … $20. They sold a few dozen copies. I am no expert but it seems that $20 was rather quite a large sum in those days, especially during the Great Depression (in spite of the period's negative inflation, i.e. deflation), and according to this site, it would be worth about $337 today. (The site takes into account inflation of every year). |
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markmiller Special user 731 Posts |
Ed Marlo put out a xeroxed effort in the late 60's - riffle shuffle systems that was a hundred dollars - a fortune at that time, especially in the teenage money available to me at the time. No one I knew could afford it.
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noble1 Special user 651 Posts |
Whoever wrote that original Vernon, Marlo, Slydini, comment might be a relative newcomer. Even Stars of Magic was originally sold four pages at a time - And in later years guys like Doc Albo, Christian Fechner, Harbin, and a host of others with valuable offerings commanded fees well above the cost of printing. If Tomsoni is the material you want you pay the price. There is no reason anyone but the artist should set the cost for his work, if people want it they will buy it. There wouldn't be a second printing if the first 1500 copies didn't sell out.
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farmerkarl New user 62 Posts |
So I'm still looking for a number of copies for the second printing of this book.
Also, does anyone else think that Johnny might be doing a disservice to his early adopters by signing the second printing? It sounded (and looked) like it was a lot of effort to sign the first batch. Why go through all the trouble for the second? People want the book because people want the book.... So give them the book! Leave the autographed original copies as a "gimmie" to them that bought them (even speculators -- although I am not a fan of them) As far as the price of this book goes I think it is ok. Magic secrets should cost something for obvious reasons. If I like a trick and I want to buy it and it is a way cool trick... I certainly don't don't want every Tom, Dick, and Harry Houdini to have and be doing the trick for a couple of bananas. Exclusiveness is a good thing. Just because a trick or a book is available doesn't mean everyone should get a copy. I don't like to have to budget my magic dollars but it helps me to support what I think is good and useful to me. I hope you do the same. |
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Tom G Inner circle 2895 Posts |
It sounds like it was Johnny's decision to sign the second printing. The books are somewhat of his legacy. Magicana will be show them as a second printing, so people that have first edition-first printing will have something a little special.
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Ray Haining Inner circle Hot Springs, AR 1907 Posts |
First of all, I'm not saying the Thompson books are not worth the money. If you have the money and want the books, they are worth it.
I just want to point out that "back in the day," magicians were members of a much more exclusive club than they are today. Secrets were much more respected back then. There was no internet. If you were an aspiring magician, you had to go through much greater effort to access those secrets, including coming up with a large sum of money for that Vernon or Marlo manuscript, if you even knew about it. I was a young person in the 1950s and 1960s and interested in magic. I had access to magic books in the library and those items advertised on the back covers of comic books ("magically produce endless cigarettes," "create smoke at your fingertips," etc.). In my late teens, I managed to get a hold of a Tannen's catalog, but I knew no other magicians and was unfamiliar with The Stars of Magic, and Vernon, until I was 19. If you wanted to learn from Vernon, say, you couldn't just pop in a DVD or go on the internet. You had to physically go to where Vernon himself was, such as Larry Jennings and Bruce Cervon did when they went to the Magic Castle to meet him. And even then, he might not bring you into the "in-crowd" if you did not show the requisite talent. That all changed in the 1990s with the arrival of videos and the internet. The exclusivity of magic secrets today has become severely diluted. |
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magicfish Inner circle 7006 Posts |
There are many of us who still believe in secrecy and exclusivity.
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
After more than one century of exploding developments, as for almost any art, what we see now are only small improvements or variations of existing things. Only tech revolution can produce something really new. So yes, secrets are less important now than a few decades ago.
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msmaster Special user 522 Posts |
Rachy has it wrong. Not unlike drama or music or painting - a new perspective or mix of elements or switch or interpretation on something that has come before can bring a fresh perspective that is different or never existed in the exact same way in the past. These are the real secrets, and they are important.
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korttihai_82 Inner circle Finland 1880 Posts |
Having read the both books I am somewhat torn. First of all I have to state that I don't buy books for just the sake of collecting them or wanting to own them since they are rare. I first and foremost buy books in order to be inspired by the material or to find some bits and pieces on how to improve my existing material or in order to perhaps learn totally new routine or two.
Thompson books are full of workable material and pretty much everything in the books is for workers! However A LOT of it isn't anything new and tons of it is already though by the man himself on his L&L video serie. This is pure estimation but about half of the books is material from those videos. Also lots of the other stuff has already been published as well. Some of it credited properly and some of it has been published without credits to Thompson. The point is that I was familiar with at least 75% of the material in the books, maybe even more, and that affected my reading experience tremendeously. I still found few items or ideas I want to try to use in my professional repertoire. I am very happy that these books are finally published and the material is really good. But are they worth the rather heavy price tag for you depends a lot what are you looking for in books and how well read you are in magic in general. For average hobbyist or performer I would even go to as far to say that if Thompson material interests you and you don't have his L&L dvd set get it instead. L&L has regularly very good discounts and you can get sort of "Best of" video serie for under quarter of the price of books. J-M |
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
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On May 12, 2018, msmaster wrote: I agree with you. I was speaking of something really new. It is maybe just a matter of degree in originality. When cubism appeared, it was really new, even if we can trace the evolution which had driven to this expression modality. What you point as real secrets are not real secrets for me. Real secrets are far beyond just combinations or fresh perspective, or interpretation. In my opinion, what you see as real secrets are only an expression of them. |
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ixnay66 Inner circle Denver 1525 Posts |
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On May 9, 2018, noble1 wrote: I’m not a newcomer, just referencing books that were readily available like Vernon’s Inner Secrets books, Slidini Encores, Marlo, James, etc True, you can talk about manuscripts from the 1930s and their price then but I’m not talking about material sold that long ago. It also seems from the table of contents that the bulk of the material are his touches or handlings of other magicians routines. Nothing wrong with that of course, small touches like these can have a huge impact for working pros and it looks like these are selling quite well. |
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thomasR Inner circle 1189 Posts |
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On May 13, 2018, farmerkarl wrote: I agree with his review. I haven't begun to read all of both the books, but honestly they aren't super fun to read. I have a lot of magic books (Tom Stone and Steinmeyer are both in my current read pile) and these books are a bit hard to follow for me. I was also annoyed that a few routines refer to other magic books for further scripting / handling. That being said, the books are beatiful inside and out. And the routines themselves are gold and certainly it's very usable commercial material. Plus Tellers forward made me cry! Ha. While there was no promise the books wouldn't have a second printing, part of the reason I bought them was the "hurry get them while you can!" Marketing from the publisher, so I feel a bit tricked there is a second printing so quickly. Bottom line, they are worth the money for me, but barely. |
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msmaster Special user 522 Posts |
I also like books that are beautiful in and out. But the thomasR "aren't super fun to read" comment above seems to be the first in this thread to express that sentiment about the Thompson books I always learn best and am most riveted and impressed by works that are a reflection of the subject or author and especially expect entertaining and provocative as well as informative texts by funny performers. I felt the same way reading the Caveney books. Like Thompson, he is a very fun and funny entertainer to experience, yet that personality, demeanor, character, and sense of whimsy did not carry over to the books.
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Tim Cavendish Inner circle 1404 Posts |
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On May 22, 2018, msmaster wrote: Caveney wrote his own books, whereas Jamy Ian Swiss wrote these Johnny Thompson books. While Swiss is a superb critic and historian, he's definitely not the joyful, whimsical entertainer that Thompson is. |
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msmaster Special user 522 Posts |
Caveney is also a joyful whimsical entertainer, he wrote his own book, it is informative, but reads dry as dirt and doesn't reflect who we know him as onstage.
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Energizer Special user A well known funeral palour 582 Posts |
My two cents - You will get a lot more from these books if you can do a Faro shuffle. If you cannot do one and are not willing to learn, it may not be worth the investment.
I cannot Faro
"We judge a book by its cover and read what we want between selected lines" - W. Axl Rose, circa 1992.
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thomasR Inner circle 1189 Posts |
Good point! Ha. I can't do a faro and so far have been too lazy to learn. I can however do an almost perfect riffle shuffle, close enough that most faro tricks will work for me.
The more I read the books, the more gold I am finding as far as routines. I just really thought it was going to be more of a book BY Johnny Thompson and less a book ABOUT Johnny Thompson. I don't really care for Swiss's righting style. But that's me. |
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tenchu Inner circle Europe 1117 Posts |
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On May 27, 2018, thomasR wrote: Wait, what? I always thought that a faro shuffle is much easier than, for example, a perfect riffle shuffle. You are talking about a table riffle shuffle, right? Mike |
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thomasR Inner circle 1189 Posts |
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On May 29, 2018, tenchu wrote: It probably is easier for most people. and yes a table riffle shuffle. I'm not claiming mine is perfect, but it's usually close enough to make the trick work. If that makes sense. |
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