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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » Origin of the vanishing silk with a ## (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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gallagher
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I'm not sure if this is apropriate, but...
Did you hear what the Leper said to the Prostitute?
"Keep the tip."

,naa,.. I guess it wasn't really.
gallagher
Endless West
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I was just reading "The beginner's guide to conjuring: Arthur Otto" copyright 1910 and it has the production and vanish of a silk via false finger on page 13 or 14.
Dick Oslund
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Quote:
On 2014-02-19 08:32, NeutronBomb wrote:
I was just reading "The beginner's guide to conjuring: Arthur Otto" copyright 1910 and it has the production and vanish of a silk via false finger on page 13 or 14.


I've never seen Mr. Otto's book, but you are describing a "6th f*ng*r. --NOT a TT! I do remember a prop being sold (I think in the '40s) called SLIK SILK. It was a 6th f*ng*er.
They were originally made of celluloid, I believe. I had one. It was a "horrible" pink color! --but it worked. Vernet makes them today. I've used them.--but, it's NOT A TT.
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Dick Oslund
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I am checking out a few details on the inventor of the TT. WATCH THIS SPACE!
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Endless West
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Dick Oslund, you're probably correct. I'm not familiar with the 6th finger gimmick so read it as a TT.
When are you gonna hit us with this TT research, I've been watching this space! Smile
Dick Oslund
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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FOR THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN FAITHFULLY--AND PATIENTLY--WATCHING THIS SPACE<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

HERE IS THE "REAL WORD" ON THE >>>>>>>>TT,<<<<<<<<<<<

(I wanted to check a few details)

PROFESSOR HERWINN (born, William Humpage)invented what "everyone of us has one of"! (I just did a "Charlie Miller"!)--I used a preposition to end a sentence with. That, as Winston Churchill once remarked, is "...something up with which I shall not put."

As far as I can determine the date of this auspicious occasion was "sometime" in 1885. (Senor VERNET wasn't born yet.)

The good professor was listed in "STANYON'A MAGIC" IN DECEMBER 1900. In August 1903,he is mentioned in "STANYON'S MAGIC" again. In May 1907, he is mentioned in SELBIT'S "THE WIZARD" magazine.

He was an early member of the MAGIC CIRCLE. (Hey! I (me) was an Associate of the INNER MAGIC CIRCLE, with GOLD STAR.)

He also invented the (brass) Vanishing Penny Box. (The underside of the English penny was plain brass, to match the box bottom.)

So! If anyone of you prestidigitators would like to claim inventing the thing (whose paint job never matched my skin) before that, spesk up!!! --or forever hold your piece!

His son, Charles, as "Carlni", toured the music halls with a SHADOWGRAPHY AND CHAPEAUGRAPHY act.
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RiffRaff
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Dick, I could have saved you some research time. Alexander DeCova credits Prof. Herwinn for the invention of the TT in his TT DVD.
However, we still don't know who was the first to use a TT to vanish a silk.
Dick Oslund
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Hi RiffRaff! It just took a little time to contact an old friend who had the source. I emailed him, but he is a BUSY GUY,and didn't get back to me for about two weeks! I figured that I wouldn't get fired (!) so I just waited for him! You're right, we still don't know who was first............

I haven't seen the DeCova TT DVD, but I'm happy to know that it's not just me who cares about crediting originators!

As far as I know (I just met him briefly at Abbott's Get Together a few years ago) Chris Capehart is an honest guy, who has certainly proved himself as a qualified performer!
I've mentioned before that Bobo and I were jackpotting at an SAM convention in Chicago in the early '70s, and in the course of conversation, he showd me his handling of the
TT for a production and vanish of a 12" silk. That was July. I put it in as an opener that fall. I used it for 5 years or so. It played well. I now use it in casual strolling, and I use an 18" half silk and a LONG TT.

I'm not arguing with Debbie, I'm not claiming that I was first! --Bobo showed it to me. He never claimed to be the first, either. I'm just curious! I do wish Chris would come on here and tell us his side of the story.
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bkmeyer
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Dick,

Great discussion on the TT so thank you and the others for their input. I'm curious, however, about your book. I've been hearing you mention it from time-to-time, and you mentioned in some correspondence with me also. I believe you have sufficiently built suspense and increased tension so we are all waiting for the anticipated arrival. Can't wait...

Thanks, Dick.

Bruce
RiffRaff
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BTW, Bugs Bunny invented the silk vanish in 1939, but he used a white FT instead of the standard TT.
See min. 4:30...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuch_WMyx7U
Dick Oslund
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Hey! That proves it! Bugs Bunny's FT even matched his finger. I shall cease my search! Thanks Riff~! (So! Chris Capehart! --hee hee~)

I wonder if Herwin was related to Vernet.

BTW I am the proud possessor of the "world's only" double ended TT! I "obtained" it when helping Tom Ladshaw package Vernet TTs in "his" magic shop in Boca Raton, Florida in the early '90s.
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Dick Oslund
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Bkmeyer!

Me, too! I sent the flash drive to Norm Barnhart several weeks ago. He is converting the "manuscript" to "book format" (I think I have those terms correct. I also sent a bunch of 8x20 glossies, and some miscellaneous Lyceum brochures, etc.

AS soon as the O degrees "chill out" we're experiencing,has abated, I'm planning on driving to Minneapolis to confer with Norm regarding publishing plans. In some ways, this "self publishing" seems to be easy, in other ways, it's not!

Thanks much for your continued interest!

Dick
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mtpascoe
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It seems that the popularity of making a silk vanish in a TT began after Vernet came up with his plastic one. It had more room for a silk so it was logical that someone would have came up with it at that time. I kind of wonder if Mr. Vernet himself came up with it.

Mr. Capehart would have been in his teens at that time. It may be possible, but for it to become widely used by the magic fraternity in the late 70s by a young street performing teen seems improbable. Capehart would have to have invented it before 1978 and have it spread to California. Because Phil Sherman was selling TT at his shop called Magic World at that time. He use to demonstrate the vanishing silk in the TT in his shop. It was his best trick. He did it so well, that it inspired me. It became my life long passion. It was through his instruction that I worked on this trick my entire life.

Years later I too perform this at a magic shop and would repeat it in front of potential customers. I would repeat it right in front of their face and they would never see it. All thanks to Mr. Sherman.

I am not saying Phil invented it, but he got it from somewhere. I'm sure it was a standard item when he opened his shop. I think Vernet came out with his plastic TT in 1971. So from that point on, Mr. Capehart would have had the opportunity to use a TT to vanish a silk. The timeline is possible, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

Some day I would love to publish a book and include the vanishing silk so I would like to credit the correct people. So I hope some day we do learn the truth.
Nick W
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Uhhh, seriously? the vanish of a silk in a TT is as old as the hills. I think its rather laughable that the original poster is saying it was invented by Mr. Capehart. Whoever had the brilliant idea to enlarge a thimble, crudely shape it into a body part then figure out that a piece of silk was the best thing to vanish with it, that happened a way long time ago..........a way long time ago.
Dick Oslund
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Nick! "Them thar" hills are a lot older than TTs!!! (give or take a million years!)

From what I've learned Prof.Herwin apparently went to a jeweler and had his TT made either of silver or gold.

A "way long time ago........a way long timer ago" is a rather loose time period. Can you give us a specific date???

I DID, Scroll up this thread, and read it for yourself!
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Nick W
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Specific date? absolutely not! TT's, or any object that can fit on your thumb, have been around for a long time. longer than 100 years, and probably even longer than that. its not just a TT, its a principal. principal that you can load things on your hand. that's old. dare anyone argue that? yes I giggled when original poster said Chris Capehart invented the vanish of a silk in a TT. Any magicians working covent garden in the 70's here to chime in? its a classic. now, theres many cases of people having great ideas at the same time, that happens often. but I refuse to believe the original post has any truth to it. its not even logical to say that.
Dick Oslund
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OOPS! Sorry! I misunderstood! (my own fault) I was thinking that you were referring to Herwinn's "invention" of the TT, and you were talking about the use of the TT, as a feke to vanish a silk.

I suspect that the OP may have misunderstood Chris Capeheart. As I mentioned above, I only met him once, and briefly at that. I was definitely impressed by his talent, as he lectured.
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mtpascoe
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The reason I doubt that a silk was used during Herwinn's time is just plain logic. The TT's in those days where too small to hold anything like a silk. I remember when I got my first one I didn't use it. I was too young to smoke (well, I could of, but didn't). I read Christopher's book, and liked a few tricks, but only played around with ideas. I think the only thing I did with it was a stretching thumb trick that fooled a few people when I think it should not have.

It wasn't until I bought a Vernet's that I really used the prop. After learning what I did from Phil Sherman, I have used it for other things as well. I like the Cut and Restored Ribbon with the TT. I tried the Hundred Dollar Bill switch, but like using it without a TT. Showed Mr. Electric that one. I even used it as a torn and restored sugar packet. The metal ones don't hold enough room for salt or sugar. But, the sugar packets and the packet itself holds just enough room in a nice size Vernet. (Of course a salt shaker filled with salt cannot.) But, a little bit of salt does work and I have done that as well.

I am just saying, I have not read or heard anyone doing the Vanishing Silk trick with the TT before 1970. Capehart is in the time frame, but I doubt that busking with the trick would have enough exposure to have it become a standard use of the gimmick.
noland
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Jack Chanin both made a silk appear, and disappear in his club act, using a metal thumb tip. His technique was published in his book "Silk at your fingertips." He used the vanish and reproduction of the silk as a lead in to a bare-handed production of progressively larger and larger silks, culminating in the production of a stack of fishbowls. I don't know what the publication date of the first edition of Chanin's book was, although the forward to the edition I own (a 1952 edition) is dated 1939. Which means Chanin was using the trick back in the '30's.

I think Chris Capehart's adaptation of the TT vanish and reappearance of a silk to street performance is brilliant. However, the trick itself preceded Chris.
mtpascoe
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Thank you Noland, this was the info I was looking for. I'll have to check to see if I can get this confirmed, but it seems that we are closer than we've been. No doubt by what you have mentioned that the precident was Jack Chanin, but the trend began with this trick when Vernet came out with his TT. And I'm sure magicians like Sherman, Darwin, and maybe even Capehart brought help make the trick popular.
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