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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 28, 2016, Ray Pierce wrote: These are the things I am talking about.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Well, it fooled me.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
All advertising is "puffing" seems to be much more in posting oh.
Ken, you just don’t understand, those who book shows for the White House aren’t 'professional' Neither are those who book all those TV spots. LOL Have you ever in your life heard such nonsense. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Tom, seriously, you really aren't understanding the professional references throughout his entire thread. So if you're not understanding, how can you feel you can have something to contribute (of course other than uninformed negative jabs)?
However, this does bring something to the surface. That is performers who may not understand something, that incorrectly just take what they THINK something means, and somehow twist THAT and try to adapt it to what they think it is is and how they then applies to their business. Like foudational education, decisions and understanding one must make as a performer and entertainment business owner if they are made incorrectly or in this case understood incorrectly, everything done based on this incorrect information, understanding and foundation will likely be weak or incorrect. Tom is not a performer or entertainer business owner and only contributes for sport and to offer support to his friends, their agendas and any underdogs. But offering information or insight on something you aren't understanding really isn't helpful and can be harmful to others that may happen to heed your sentiments. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2016, TomBoleware wrote: Yea Tom that was Rays point. I thought you said people shouldn't post about things they don't do? I thought you said you were taking a break from posting?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2016, Ken Northridge wrote: I ways appreciate Ken's perspectives but must completely disagree on this one. As I mentioned with false testimonials, fake reviews, over-inflated promo, sharply produced videos, it can all lead to one presenting themselves far greater than what they can possibly deliver. It is more than just marketing and PR. As a performer, we MUST live up to what is put out there by our promo materials, media appearances and more. Even correctly or not, what other perceive of us must be delivered. So all of this over-hype is only really setting a performer up for disappointing the clients. It's not about "how great I make make myself appear" it's about "what best and most properly represents me and what can I deliver consistently without fail or misleading hype." Look at Mac King. Very humble, but praised by everyone. He doesn't in any way over-hype himself. He prefers to over-deliver rather than over hype. The result is I have never heard a single person say anything but praise for him. Never anything else. He can easily produce the expectation he puts out there and almost always exceeds. Why? Because he understand the business. His is driven by success not personal gratification, trying to impress his peers or ego. His absolute greatest quality is is real guy, approachable humbleness. Making up false claims or representations is both misleading and dishonest, and sets one self up not to be able to deliver the expectation received by their own hype (or BS). One can't live up to "bigger than life", sorry. This only leads to dissatisfied customers, a bad taste/experience and it does damage the entire industry. Look at Mike's hype and promo, and then look at his performances and media clips. Two HUGELY different things. No congruency at all. |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Mac King is great example of a first class entertainer and person, but we can't all be Mac King. I still don't see what is misleading and dishonest. Not just anyone can be invited to perform on the White House lawn. You have to have some knowledge, drive and artistic ability to make these things happen. As this attempt at publicity proves you can totally screw it up:
At least I think we agree on this: if you can't live up to your own hype, it will be exposed sooner or later.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2016, Mindpro wrote: You did. Three times in one post. A few posts above this one. Quote:
On Apr 15, 2015, Mindpro wrote: Who's making up stuff again? |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
That was not what was being referenced in this recent discussion. That was taken from over a year ago in direct response to a member-asked question and has nothing to do with the current discussion. But it's good to know you are still specializing in taking old things out of context for your own use.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2016, Ken Northridge wrote: Well fake or altered photoshopped media stories are one thing as Ray pointed out. Another is the fake representation that he is "burdened by all of the media that has been thrust upon him." Let's be honest, he didn't get invited to appear at the White House lawn. These media reps are not just following him around clamouring to do stories on him. He is painting this false perception here to try to impress. More so than painting, he actually stating it. He went through the same process as every other performer who agrees to perform for free at the White House. Each year it's the same process again from scratch. Not the White House contacting him asking him to please return to the event. Mike paints many false perceptions here that several here are more than well aware of. The problem I have is when uninformed or unaware (of this) people read into this that it is all true and he is just the pillar of success. He is in the business of illusion and perhaps more so disillusion. Those in the know can see it a mile away. Others may not. That is what so many are speaking about. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2016, Mindpro wrote: Mindpro, Do you really believe that the 63,461 members here are all professional performers? And what exactly is wrong with supporting and encouraging friends? Name me one person that I have harmed with bad information in all the years I have been here? Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Hundereds could be named. Anyone who actually followedyour advice.
What happened to you thinking people shouldn't pay if they don't do what they are posting about?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
People shouldn't pay?
WHAT You talking about? Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2016, TomBoleware wrote: No one ever said that or implied that here did they? No. But Tricky Business is different than the other forums. Most that come here are workers (except perhaps you) or are interested in becoming so. This why the majority of the 63,461 members are not in this forum. Only those interested and of which this proper business insight is of interest and applicable. Which of course comes to Danny's question of why are you here commenting and offering advice on something that is unapplicable to you or not of your experience? Perhaps this is why you have difficulty understanding most activity here and what others more clearly see? For all practical purposes you are (at best, a one time) a consumer, not a working professional in this industry, correct? |
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
"Oh, what a tangled web we weave..." I'm sure that many people in the early stages of performing do more "puffing" in their promo. Then you start performing professionally and realize how easy it is to get caught and stick to being realistic with your press. It just appears that the news pieces posted above have been pasted up and did not appear in that form in any print media. In this one:
It could have very well been information posted in this newspaper but certainly not with this font and typeset this way. It has been set up by someone (probably Mike) as a promo piece. Did they actually publish this? Not in this format, no. In any format? It's certainly possible but there is no way to know. My main point was in trying to promote yourself on here to other magicians in 2016 with the line "I wish the properazzi would leave me alone." using clippings from 2 years in the past. If that is the most recent press... it appears he got his wish. I'm all for learning and sharing ideas about the business in this section but if you just want to post here to toot your own horn, there are probably other areas you can do that in.
Ray Pierce
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Mindpro,
I have been involved with magic on some level for more than fifty years now. And yes I made a living as a full time professional at one time. I’ve also won many awards in sales and marketing, owned many businesses, so I think I am well qualified to talk about business. I’m out of here but before I go I am going to suggest that we change the name of this section to the Danny and Mindpro show. How about that. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Yeah the other one show paste-up marks as well so you can see it was manufactured as well. We're being polite as there are many more things that he could be called out on as well.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2016, TomBoleware wrote: That's silly, crazy and even whack. I'm greatly offended and deeply hurt Tom as once again you are wrong. What I'm just a second banana? It should be The Mindpro & Danny Show!!! |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2016, Ray Pierce wrote: I was curious asince to if the red underlines from Word indicating a misspelled word were published? Too often lately this place is nothing but trying to just puff.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
I agree and continually try to present topics of interest to those seeking business and industry insight. What I find interesting as charliecheckers mentioned is his taking more that others may see. There is great valuable info on most of these thread, if you sidestep the unnecessary distractions and derailments.
What amazes me is all performers, pro or otherwise, experience troubles and problems in the operation of their business, but this puffing environment changes the whole tone. I'd rather see guys (performers male or female) openly discuss their challenges. Losing an account, losing a restaurant client, not getting the desired results from their marketing, not getting agency representation, having trouble expanding or understanding different performance markets, wanting to learn how to use press and media or how to use it better, expansion, adding additional services, business systems, and and overall understanding of the bigger picture rather just just the aspects that only pertain to a specific or limited area. There are so many area that could be covered positively without all the puffing. Its always these topics and type of posts that members seem to get the most out of and the greatest participation, of course that is until they get derailed by Puff Daddy and the dog pound. If you have some experience and can contribute to a topic or thread great, if not respect the forum and step back, listen and learn, or bow out. This is and should be the most valuable forum on here to performers. Others that aren't performers, unless they are here to learn or taunt, I have no idea why they'd be here, let alone thrust themselves into threads for no reason. There are many topics here tat appeal to performer son all levels. Many are willing to contribute to these topics. Many can and have learned from these topics. I'd like to hear more problems and challenges in business operations. |
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