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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2016, Mindpro wrote: Great topics! I know I have a keen interest in many of them, as my brother will be looking to transform our business model in the upcoming years. One consideration is to expand his brand to include other products and services (outside of magic or performing) geared for our target audience age range. Another possibility is to secure sponsorships. We are looking at other ways to expand as well. He will need to follow the advice offered here with respect to proper promotion, promo videos, marketing materials and such. This is why I respect those with diverse and deep experiences sharing their advice despite opposition from those who cut corners. The back and forth discussions have really allowed me to understand better the "why" behind much of this. They have opened my eyes to possibilities and approaches I had not previously considered. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
It can only happen with total honesty and getting rid of the puffing and self-serving fluff and the other distractions.
I think that's what I have been saying and eluding to about the difference between those with specific and limited knowledge only vs. those with or wanting diverse and deeper advice, experience and offerings. I've never understood those that only want to remain at their current point and not want to learn and move to more and greater. Then only to get defensive towards others that do want more or greater is ignorant and unnecessary. I also think the "whys" you mentioned is what many miss or don't understand. This is where the most value and progress is. Good thoughts. |
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 30, 2016, Mindpro wrote: This is such a great thought for real learning. If you want to "puff or bluff" to the public, do what you need to do but this space is for us to be real and learn together. The doors are closed, it's just us... let's put aside the egos and get down to business!
Ray Pierce
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Jealousy is a mental cancer.
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
WHOOOOSH!
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
I am not going to let it spread to me.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
So a person posts puff nonsense, gets caught miss representing themselves, and gets caught being a fraud here and the response when Ray catches him is that Ray is jealous?
Good thing nobody here is fooled by that! If it wasn't so sad it would be HILARIOUS. Can't wait for Tom to come back and make more excuses for the behavior. The real question is how jealous must a person be to post the fake stuff here and pose like that?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Although as usual it can provide a teachable moment
When just starting out, or when wishing to change markets the tendency is to "puff up" ones resume. This is simply because it does not look that impressive and when you compare it to the competition you think it is going to help. While it may or may not help the puffing can and often DOES backfire hard. Customers HATE to be lied to and when they find out they have been they feel cheated. I bet Ken right now is feeling less than perfect about having been duped by Mike. Now think if you are trying to purchase services from someone who has just lied to you! What exactly will your response be? Pretending the Easter Egg Roll at the White House is the same as a command performance is a good example. Once someone asks about it you are sunk. Then you have to explain, then they can research it SO FAST with Google and it can be a killer. Do it with an agency and expect to NEVER be involved with them. There is NOTHING WRONG with working the Easter Egg Roll. It is cool, used properly it CAN help without a doubt. BUT used improperly, as has been done more times than I can count it is actually a DETERMENT to your business. Puffing is great until you get called on it and have to explain. Let your work and resume speak for themselves. They will grow. I knew a guy in Chicago a thousand years ago who used to claim he appeared nightly on ABC. Thing was as the news started there was a 3 second clip of him doing something street performing in their flash shots during the opening. So when people would ask where they could see him nightly, it would backfire HORRIBLY and he made a fool of himself. Comics suffer from this really bad. In this day and age where things can be SO EASILY checked doing this stuff is just dumb and armature. Invariably it ends up showing people that you are telling lies to try to take their money. Then the next logical step is are you telling lies about the show and so forth. I knew a HORRIBLE comic who did this. He claimed he opened for Rosanne Barr, Robin Williams and so forth. He was a Humphrey Bogart impersonator. He worked at the Hollywood Casino. So when those celebrities came to do their show, he walked out AS Humphrey Bogart and simply said "Ladies and Gentlemen, Rosanne Barr!" 5 words and he was puffing like he was an opening act. So when he made these claims and people would ask and he would have to end up telling them it was pretty sad. Why a guy would come here to puff in a place where people are trying to learn is well beyond my ability to understand. That is an ego issue. Puffing yourself up an an industry message board does not "help" other magicians in ANY way. Putting up things that look like they have been done at one of those novelty booths where you can have your picture on Time Magazine is really odd. As a joke in 2007 I would put that I was voted Time Magazine "Person of the Year." I was. So were you, and so was everyone. They put a mirror on the cover. It was an INTENTIONAL way to get them to ask about the credit, it was a humorous little joke and something they remember. It was not "puffing" but it was a sales tool. Some of what gets passed off here as "information" or "help" is shocking to me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On Jun 30, 2016, Dannydoyle wrote: The only thing worse is when someone that is not a performer or hasn't real, actual experience on a subject comes in with personal opinions from their armchair recliner. As any psychologist, analyst, counselor or therapist knows and understands, those that claim jealousy are actually usually doing so because of their own deep seeded envy, inadequacies, and jealousy. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Truth be told this whole thread is and was started for puffing. After a round of initial comments from those misled or who perceived it at face value, some real and constructive criticism started coming in from those actually in the know. That wasn't what he intended. So rather than heed the advice and information offered, it was responded to with combativeness, instant claims of jealousy (towards those with more experience on the topic than himself) and then of course louder puffing.
As I say repeatedly one must start from the point of honesty to their true current level. This is not happening here. There is a delusion at work here that can no longer be and shouldn't be overlooked. It's playing everyone here for a fool and wasting their time and effort. This has been gong on continuously for years now. Far too long for those others with serious intent. |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
I understand over the years I had several disagreements with many members here. After you read Mindpro's and Dannydoyle's post, how do you like me now?
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
That's what Ray said right before he was accused of being jealous!
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
The point is this is nothing new or anything we all haven't known for years. As I said, back to the first of the year and the insanely ridiculous posts about being on top of the hill, a winner, being hounded by the press and media, restating stuff from others materials he just read, posting things against the rules of the community, and mostly offering incorrect info as facts. This has been going on long before Ray called him out on it and everyone here knows it as well.
From the immediately lack of comprehension in the Do You Have A Business Or Just Self-Employeed" thread, to the hilarious telling us how to be wealthy in the Hard Work thread, his copy and paste work in the Think & Grow Rich thread, to him giving the "secret" to being a winner in the Desire thread, to his ideas of "winning" in the Magic Is Within You thread, to a copy and paste list in the Marketing thread, to even more puffing in the Where Is Your Office located thread, this is absolutely crazy and absurd. Then of course was his "See You At The Top" thread where he proclaims he is AT THE TOP AND HE HOPES THAT SOMEDAY WE CAN ALL GET THERE WITH HIM AS WELL! There are many more but everyone gets the point. It's about everything but honesty and reality. It is blatant and personal agenda which he's been warned about and banned previously yet continues to elevate his puffing. It's all meant as a "look at me" ego boast and to taunt, bait and flame the members that do make take the time and effort to make great contributions to most threads. |
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
Ego is such a strange beast. It can blind some and delude others. We all need a healthy ego to go on stage and do what we do. It's part of our character when we're in the public eye. When we're off stage and talking with peers, the honest (and confident) ones drop the "public persona" and work as real people devoid of the pretense we leverage on stage. There is something very endearing about pros getting together to hang out and just talk. One of the reasons I still enjoy doing the "It's Magic" shows is for the chance to hang out and talk with old friends backstage. There is a great comradery of people with a shared commonality in the business. We come from different areas and perspectives but we all respect and share a life of dedication to this art. It wouldn't ring true if someone was still "playing the role" and trying to impress us with his credits. That's an instant indicator of someone who doesn't belong. I can see that here online many times. If you try too hard... there's always a reason. Just come to the table, be yourself. I want to learn like everyone else and do constantly. Let's just drop the pretense and share what we do here. As the sign said on the Charlie Chaplin soundstage at the "We are the World" recording session, "Leave your egos at the door."
Ray Pierce
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Has anyone been working on getting publicity lately?
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Really, lol. Of course, every day. Could this be another bait and setup?
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
LOL. Good one, Mindpro. Only the piranhas will bite.
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Futureal Inner circle 1695 Posts |
Dynamike is a rank amateur at best, as his YouTube clips prove. The one where he produced two chinchillas and one bit his hand and he dropped it on the ground was unacceptable. The fact that he chose to post that publicly as a piece of promo material proves that he’s not wired up the same as most of us.
He’s working low end gigs in a market where being crap is acceptable though. |
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Dynamike Eternal Order FullTimer 24148 Posts |
Quote: I am calling you dead wrong. Show a link to that video so everyone can see you are wrong.
On Nov 1, 2018, Futureal wrote: Off topic: You do remind me of someone. I have a strong feeling who you are. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Hopefully if you did post that you took it down.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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