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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
I ask this sincerely; I am not trying to be clever.
Richard discloses the details of the blindfold on one of his videos. Is this, on your view, tacit permission to copy these details for a personal blindfold? What distinction do you make between making one for yourself and making one for sale? Obviously, selling the copy is not right. What about personal use? In particular, I would like to hear what Jim Sisti or Richard Osterlind believe to be the case here. Thanks John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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John LeBlanc Special user Houston, TX 524 Posts |
It's been pretty universal that, when you buy a book, you get performing rights to the tricks in the book. I've been of a mind to believe that when you buy a magic instruction video, you get performance rights to the tricks found therein. If that includes having to make up a prop, well, make up the prop. But you'll see that books and videos make a point of noting that manufacturing rights are retained -- and rightfully so.
But that brings up the question of how much is your time worth. I own one of Daryl's original "Ultimate Ambition" tricks and I know I wouldn't have bothered to make one up myself. During the lecture tour in 2000 (I think) he offered an updated version of the trick. His lecture notes explained the thing plainly but I still think buying the prop is worth ten times the cost when compared to how much time and effort it would take me to make the thing. John |
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RicHeka Inner circle 3999 Posts |
John LeBlanc:Thanks for your clear headed and IMO 'right on comments'.You state the truth,and it rings true.
When you mentioned Daryl,I thought of his original 'Jumping Knot of Pakistan'.On his tape,I remember he said(I paraphrase)"Hey you can attempt to make one of these,and after many failures you would probably be better off just purchasing my product." It boils down to:Support the original creators of effects.If you wish to market something,do your research and make sure it is not just a 'Fast Change Illusion'. If it is,you will be exposed and called on it ..to your embarassment. Rich |
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Scott Xavier Inner circle 3672 Posts |
"Yes."
--Jim Sisti, I believe you are wrong. Osterlind just kindly commented else where that the idea is not new. The variant on a basic trick is his however. "As my friend Jim Sisti is quick to point out, changing from a red deck to a blue deck doesn't make it a new trick; it makes it a knock off. " --Correct. As Osterlind has stated elsewhere, it is not a new concept, just a variant of an older trick. "But you'll see that books and videos make a point of noting that manufacturing rights are retained -- and rightfully so. " --Now does the manufacturing right still hold true if as osterlind states elsewhere, that the blindfold isn't new, just a new incarnation? "You state the truth,and it rings true." -- Truths are facts remember that, not moral opinions or semantics. "There's a common thread found in the rationalization when thieves knock off an existing trick. The code word that facilitates the dirty deed is "principle" -- which is a less than clever way of deflecting from the real issue. " --Just playing devils advocate and not trying to be a jerk, but since Osterlind stated that his is a variation on an older trick theme, does this play into your principle word play? And deflection isn't clever at all, if stating a fact is deflection, then why state a fact? Sort of like stating that what I purchased was a knock off even though they aren't identical and what I purchased was a totally different blindfold. Why? Because as osterlind states, his has to be adjusted or fitted to work properly, this one does not. "And making the blindfold out of black plastic just makes it Richard Osterlind's Stainless Steel Blindfold -- just in plastic. " --Well not exactly. It would be a variant such as is Osterlinds on another trick... Sorry I have always been inthrawled with this effect and have been compiling a complete encyclopedia of blindfolds and have been trying to come up with proper crediting for originators. I do enjoy this thread though, there's a lot of room for principle semantics. |
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Jim Sisti V.I.P. Connecticut 457 Posts |
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On 2006-07-14 08:35, Scott Xavier wrote: Wow...there's a surprise. |
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Jim Sisti V.I.P. Connecticut 457 Posts |
Quote:
On 2006-07-13 20:37, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: First off, thanks for taking the time to ask. Too many try to find some semantical loophole or use pseudo-ethical double-talk to justify what anybody with common sense would classify as thievery. I'm speaking specifically here of individuals who would make minor changes in an existing product already well established in the marketplace (and in many cases, these are non-functional changes - i.e. changing the color or material) to apparently compensate for their own lack of creativity. Richard and I zealously defend against this kind of piracy when it comes to our products and will continue to do so at the peril of those who would copy them. Just a few months ago, we fended off a blatant knock-off of one of our products and the individual ended up getting large quantities of his item returned to him by dealers and a significant amount of egg on his face. This is all I have to say on this particular matter for now but let what I've already written stand as fair warning. I will let Richard handle the misappropriation of his words that has appeared elsewhere in this thread when he returns from his current trip on Sunday. However, more to the point of your query, Mr. Eisengrim, anyone who has purchased the Mind Mysteries DVD that describes it has permission to make a blindfold of Richard's design for their own personal use. And once again, thanks for actually asking. Richard and I both appreciate it. Jim Sisti |
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Richard Osterlind V.I.P. 2213 Posts |
Scott,
Let me try to sort out all of what you said in your last post. When you originally said, "So I have been in possession of a black variation of this made from plastic, would this be considered a knock off? Was this principle a new one or one that predates osterlind?" it might be construed that the one you are in possession of is EXACTLY like the SSB except it is made out of plastic. If that is so (and I don't know that for sure) and the nose opening is round, not square, then it is a rip-off of what I invented and marketed many, many years ago. If it has a square opening at the nose cut out, then it is a copy of what has already been out there for many years. To try to address the question of whether or not a "variation" of a principle (red card vs. blue card) is the same as a "new" principle (Brainwave vs. Ultra Mental Deck) requires common sense and courtesy. Certainly almost any new effect is based on some kind of principle that was used before. In the above example, roughing fluid is the common demoninator. The 2 effects, however, are still much different. My blindfold was lauded as being revolutionary because of the fact that anyone putting it on (once it was prepared for performance) cannot see a thing. The method, which concerns the nose cut out and straps, is entirely new and was not used before in any marketed version of the effect. In addition, the stainless steel finish (stainless steel is very hard and difficult to work with) and the size, give it an entirely different look from anything else on the market. All these factors are what accounts for its success and the fact that no one has even questioned it's originality in over 20 years. Richard |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Thanks for your reply. The content of your answer is what I expected, but I am pleased with your straightforward and sensible response.
John Quote: On 2006-07-14 10:14, Jim Sisti wrote:
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Magic Arty Elite user metro Atlanta 443 Posts |
I just picked up the SSB at a magic auction our club held last week. All I can say is WOW! I took it to a venue after trying it out on wife and kids. Their comment was, "we can't see how you are doing this!" So though I have not yet tried it in front of a large audience, I did use it on a few people at a time at the venue I was working. It fried everyone I used it on. The sell of letting someone else put it on first, then putting it on to do the effects is crucial. They can't see a thing, and therfore know you can't see.
I am working a routine that follows the advice of the booklet, where it builds, yet also imploys methods that sight doesn't matter for method. I say thanks for releasing this. It is one of the best purchases I have made. Also, I think it looks way cool when on! Arthur |
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videokideo Special user 895 Posts |
Arthur... some consider this overkill, but I consider it as selling the act.
I put half dollars over my eyes and then have the audience members tape them over my eyes. Gives the impression that you have 3 things covering the eyes.. coins, tape, and stainless blindfold. Plus it gives a funny ending as you have to rip the tape off your face. I saw Craig Karges do this and it was impressive to me as I knew nothing about blindfolding. I just couldn't see where he was able to see anything. |
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jamesbond Loyal user 249 Posts |
Can you combine richarad's blindfold with taped half dollars over your eyes?
Bond |
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Jerome Finley V.I.P. SLC 3419 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-10 22:13, jamesbond wrote: Yes.
"Join my update list here!" http://eepurl.com/uE3Jf
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
The weird thing for me is that the blindfold works better on my head when it's in the regular position that you put it on a spectator. When I do the performer's position I can barely get it to work. I guess each person's head has enough variety to it that you need to play around with it until you find the sweet spot that works for you.
Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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Richard Osterlind V.I.P. 2213 Posts |
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On 2008-04-11 00:08, Greg Arce wrote: Greg, Yes, it appears that variations in the human cranial structure are remarkably varied. Rest assured, however, that the blindfold WILL work even if you have a head like the ET’s walking out of the space vehicle in “Close Encounters”! Richard |
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Samuel Catoe Inner circle South Carolina 1268 Posts |
Sounds just like he had you in mind Greg when he made 'em.
Author of Illusions of Influence, a treatise on Equivoque.
PM me for details and availability. |
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Richard Osterlind V.I.P. 2213 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-11 09:43, Samuel Catoe wrote: Now Sam, that was a GENERAL statement! |
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Greg Arce Inner circle 6732 Posts |
Quote:
On 2008-04-11 11:19, Richard Osterlind wrote: But it was still chillingly true. Greg
One of my favorite quotes: "A critic is a legless man who teaches running."
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videokideo Special user 895 Posts |
Ive had a number of emails asking about the half dollars and tape addtion to using this blindfold. Here is a clip of Craig Karges doing the blindfold act with half dollars and tape. He does not use the stainless blindfold but a cloth instead. I personally use the stainless offered by richard along with the half dollars and tape. I think the metal makes it more believeable of not being see through in any way.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4YQulDtes-8 |
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todsky Inner circle www.magicstore.ca 2354 Posts |
Okay, I'm getting one of these. The possibilities are legion, but what most appeals to me is putting on the blindfold and then bumping into people and knocking things over. I predict... the stainless steel blindfold will catapult me into success as a comedy mentalist. Or maybe into a wall. (How am I supposed to know what the future holds?)
Todsky's Magic Shop: over 15,000 tricks, books, DVD s and Card decks. www.magicstore.ca
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Marc Spelmann Special user London U.K. 666 Posts |
I had to bend mine a little as I have an unusual head shape, apparently my mother dropped me on it when I was a kid..
Don't worry about giving it a little bend here and there, it's very strong and it may help. I needed more of a curvature in mine and now it is perfect. Spelmann
It's not goodbye, just see you later...
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