Hi,

some time ago I developed a stack system that I did not find anywhere else,

If a magician wants to tell the spectator to think about any card, remove it from the deck, and give back the deck to the magician,
there are several ways to know what card the spectator did pick up.

one is not friendly at all and involves memorize the full deck, and scan one by one, not friendly, time consuming, and a bit slow,
anothe way more friendly is to use a mathematical stack, much more friendly because you don't need to memorize each card, just the algorithm for the next card, but still makes you think and not very quick neither,

the last way, up to my knowledge, is to sum up each and every card value, in order to know the missing card value, that's not quick at all, some quick minds can do it in 30-40 seconds, but still it can make you fail if you don't do the correct math, and it involves mental agility, I tried to do that and its still not friendly for the magician.

i developed a stack that involves zero memorization work, and zero math work and it allow me to scan the deck in 5-20 seconds and know the card in just one singles scan, and know instantly the missing card,

i would like to sell and share my method, but first of all I want ask if anyone know any method that allow the same effect (hands off card removal) and doesn't require any math or memorization work.

Do any one think this is something people might be interested?

I did quite many times the scan, covered by another excuse, ir just blatantly over the real fact that I am going to memorize the full deck, but with gags and making it no sense, and ending up saying "its too difficult, so many cards, maybe its easy to read your mind, blablba",

I had quite good reactions and well, I want know if you guys know any stack that allows same thing with 0 memorization and 9 math,

thanks

I suggest checking out a few essays. Doug Dyment, Martin Joyal and Simon Aronson have some good overviews.
A solid place to start. Or politely ask one of them directly.

From a functional standpoint the Eight King's stack accomplishes the same.

As an aside, all systems require some memorization to learn.

Best,
Jed

So all require some memorization involved,
they don't fit the requirement of 0 memorization

I know that if you use a setup like 8 kings or si stebbins that alternates red and black cards that you can find a missing card very quickly.

To be honest, no.
If someone's not capable of doing this with 8 kings or Si Stebbins, frankly they shouldn't be doing card magic.

If you memorize a full deck you only need to see one card to know which card was taken, you don't need to scan the entire deck.

Find a missing card with a Si Stebbins takes some mental focus and quite some time looking the deck,
i really doubt it can be done that quick,

any way, thanks for your opinion,

Twistedace, that can be acomplish with a Si Stebbins without any need to memorize the full deck too,

i am talking about give away the full deck, so there is no control from the magician to check out the card near the one taken,
that force you to scan the full deck,

so or you memorize a full deck, or you add each card value to know the missing value,

both ways are not friendly at all for the magician, takes math time, takes memorization time, takes lot of focus, and you can fail, I am talking about a system that allows a HANDS OFF card removal, then scan the full "shuffled" deck in seconds, with 0 math involved and 0 memorization involved, so its very friendly for the magician,

I just tried it (with 8 Kings not Si Stebbins), took about 5 seconds - Finding the location of the missing card is extremely straightforward, and no concentration is needed. Ascertaining its identity is also pretty simple with minimal effort.

To the OP. Rereading this thread leads me to believe you aren't talking about a stack at all.

You listed brute memory and clocking.

I'm afraid without any information no one here will be able to provide a suitable answer.

Best,
Jed

Whats the 8 king system? never read about it,


JBSmith1978 sure I am talking about a stack, my system is based on a mathematical propiety that doesn't involve you to make any mental effort,

Well if that's the case then I'm at a loss for what "no mental effort" means.
To me it has meant automatic and or reflexive in most instances.

Perhaps this essay by Doug Dyment that I mentioned in a previous post will help you on your journey.
http://www.deceptionary.com/aboutstacks.html

Best,
Jed

As an aside stebbins 3 and Eight Kings are almost effortless to scan through to discover a missing card once one is practiced in those stacks. One could augment Doug's Quickerstack to make the task even easier. Though I think there are better dodges.

see the essay that JBSmith1978 linked to.. But it's just as straightforward with Si Stebbins so if you're familiar with that, use that as a reference.

JBSmith1978, for me, no mental effort means that once I make the stack, I was able to scan the deck without any previous practice about the system,
i can talk while I scan the deck, I don't have any need to follow a sum of values constantly,
the mental focus needed for my visual stack is quite low, and there is of course a "reflexive" thinking, but its so extremly low and striaghforward that I would like to say its almost non existent as anyone that learn the system will be able to do it after read it,

Si Stebbins is not quick at all compared with my system, as it really requires a bit of focus to follow the sequence, I tried to do that, and it ends up pretty obvious that you are looking too much carefully,

i just read about the 8 kings system, its just a sequencial mnemotecnic system, I would bet my system is at least twice more quick than any other system and far more friendly for the magician mental work,
that's what I am trying to talk about here, I know its possible with lot of systems, but not all are that quick and easy, just some are easier than others,

i must clarify my stack doesn't allow you to recreate the deck order mentally, is based on a mathematical system and any magician deck using same system will have different final order,
the system is just usefull to know the missing card in the most QUICK and visual way, nothing else,

MinSting, I think you are seeing minimal enthusiasm for your proposed stack for a couple of reasons.

First, the effect is not a particularly strong one It's not even magic, just a demonstration of one's skill at doing something anyone could do, simply more quickly.

Second, as WilburrUK has already reported, it can be done, with no practice, using existing stacks, in about five seconds. You claim that your system enables it to be done in "5-20 seconds", which does not seem to warrant the effort (simple though it may be) of learning and setting up a new stack.

Most of us who use full-deck stacks do so because they allow for multiple strong effects; it's something of a bother to set up a stack in order to perform a very modest effect, when better alternatives are available.

The magic is on the presentation not in the method,

8 kings can't be done in 5 seconds, no way, it all depends on how lucky you are by findind the missing value, I also can do it in 5 seconds or less, I just claimed 20 as a max,

yes I know there are lot of stacks about there that allow multiple effects, I was just focused in find the missing card by no mental efford,
and I know there are a lot of magicians that don't really want to memorize a full deck,

but its okey, probably my method is not good, all I know is it allow me to give the deck to some one, tell him to remove a value, get it back, and my efforts to find are near to zero.
And I tried same thing with a Si Stebbins, with calc algorithms, and its all a pain for the magician, even if they allow much more effects.

So maybe its just something up to me,

I bet most of us did bought lot of expensive tricks and end up dissapointed for its real value, I don't want to sell seomthing that can return same feeling to any one,
i just find its good enought for that porpouse,

I guess any NDO-Stack will do the job.

It absolutely can, with minimal effort, you should try it (or Stebbins) again because you seem to be of the opinion that you would need to follow the sequence of the stack to locate the missing card, in truth it will all but jump out at you. Certainly you needn't have it memorised.



At the end of the day, if it's working for you, that's great. But if you're trying to sell it, you need to convince people that it's a significant improvement on existing methods. I'm not saying that your method DOESN'T have it's advantages - the 8K / SS methods certainly do have their drawbacks - it's just that you have, thus far, not touched on those particular drawbacks, they have nothing to do with how easy or difficult it is to identify the card.

I'll second what WilburrUK said. You seem to not be noticing what happens in a stack that alternates red and black when you remove a card. Technically, any sort of stack that alternates red/black or even/odd or high/low wind up with the same sort of scenario where the spot where the card came from should just pop out at you, no focus necessary.

Nlokers yes you are right, anyone can alternate Stebbins in color alternances, and this can be even quiker than my system, but I was looking for something that looks more random to spectator view,

maybe I end up sharing the system for free in case anyone is interested, I don't know