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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
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On Mar 2, 2016, gimpy2 wrote: GIMPY!!! How dare you bring levity into this??!!
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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gimpy2 Special user 960 Posts |
HA! nice play on words Michael. Kind of sorry about my post I should have written in the secret code..... Never knew c...s and b...s used m.....s just thought it was s.....t of h..d. By the way since I have over 50 posts can someone P.M. me and let me know what a T.T. and I.T. are.
Gimpy
www.gimpysmagic.com |
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ThunderSqueak Regular user 126 Posts |
Hmm secret code.... if you want secret code you should see the circuit analysis I am working on right now... up to 15 pages of equations. Silly me for going back to university classes :> I ran out of greek letters to use ; ;
Now trying to decide what new trick to 3D print and cause an uproar... maybe I will do the "nail through the coin" thing you find in almost every kids magic kit |
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ThunderSqueak Regular user 126 Posts |
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ThunderSqueak Regular user 126 Posts |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
It won't be long before every injection-molded plastic magic prop will be available this way as DIY projects.
I have no doubt that I can make use of your talents (assuming they are available and affordable ). I would have to decide what I would want to discuss first. I'm pretty buried under projects right now. If you want to get an idea of some of the stuff I make, click on my signature in any of my posts.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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ThunderSqueak Regular user 126 Posts |
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On Mar 2, 2016, Michael Baker wrote: Cool projects Loved some of the boxes. One of the things that has always bothered me about many tricks I see for sale is that they look really cheap for some reason, even when you know how expensive that the trick really was to make. Yours didn't appear that way I just sprayed one of my test cups with a hammered copper paint, and another with a chrome, curious how they will turn out. The hammered paints tend to hide the layering that you get with fused deposition layered printers. I have a printer that can print down to a resolution of 20 microns, (1/5th the thickness of a sheet of paper for those who have a hard time picturing measurements). Even with that high of a resolution, you will still get some striation, even if you wont be able to feel it, flat paints will show it. example image of something printed at 20 microns on my printer https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT_CziXUsAA0YuS.jpg (the spear was meant to look that way, for the game the piece was used in). and https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CAhE_oLUgAE6ZYq.jpg ... in comparison, many people consider 100 microns a good resolution, personally I don't care for images that look that rough. Usually I print at about 50 microns simply because it is much faster and the prints look decent. and just to be random https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cckq-a1UMAAThFn.jpg |
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
You have skills Jamie! Those are amazing.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Regarding the cups, could they be chucked on a lathe and fine sanded/polished to remove the striations? I don't work with plastics, so I don't know. Considering how cups are generally used in magic, I wonder if paint would chip.
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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ThunderSqueak Regular user 126 Posts |
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On Mar 2, 2016, Cliffg37 wrote: Actually, the name is Jessie :> |
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ThunderSqueak Regular user 126 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 2, 2016, Michael Baker wrote: you can sand the plastic, however, the best way is to pick the proper plastic to begin with, for instance, is you use ABS, you can do what is called a acetone vapor bath, basically you find an old crock pot or rice cooker then put some acetone in the bottom, not much. set your object on a small wooden pedistal and put it in so that just the vapor hits it from the mildly heated acetone (do outside). If you do this with ABS, this is a before and after picture. http://cdn.freshdesk.com/data/helpdesk/a......73350392 What happens is the vapor melts the top layer of ABS and "polishes it". You cannot however do this with other plastics like PLA without much harsher chemicals. For instance, the one that you would use to treat PLA is a serious hazard that I wont go near. I love PLA as the plastic itself is very rigid, but it doesn't sand well nor can you "vapor bath" it easily. In that case you would use a paint on epoxy that has been made just for this purpose. see this image --> http://www.reynoldsam.com/wordpress/wp-c......-.01.png If you do sand plastic and it becomes a dull "frizz" surface, I find that hitting it quickly, almost tickling it with a butane torch cleans it up fast. You just have to be careful as it can also warp the plastic. cheers |
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gimpy2 Special user 960 Posts |
Thunder,
I see the value of this type of work in terms of patterns instead of a finished product. A part of a magic prop could be fashioned by many methods out of almost any material with a pattern. Think sand molds for cast, router patterns for wood or plaastic...ect. Magic is built by folks for the most part that have few fancy tools. Many products are built by hand with very small runs of a dozen or so. CNC machines work for large run items but patterns are needed for the little guy. And once again welcome to the workshop. Gimpy
Gimpy
www.gimpysmagic.com |
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Tukaram Loyal user Iloilo, Philippines 227 Posts |
Those are good looking cups. Also, those projects you linked to (not yours, it seems) look good too. Maybe soon we will order magic online and immediately get the file to 'print' our trick! Don't worry about the naysayers - a lot of things are discussed pretty openly in 'The Workshop', and a magnet for a cup is hardly exposure, what will they think of next: trimming a short card?!
Last I saw the 3D printers, in the US, they were way too expensive - then I retired to the Philippines and feel like I moved back to 1950 ha ha... but one day... I will get one... |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Hi Jessie,
Thank you for taking the time to explain and educate me! I have used a propane torch to clean up cut/sanded edges on Plexiglass, but my general knowledge of plastics is almost nil. One of my magic building mentors (who is possibly reading this thread) has suggested that I use Delrin for a particular project that I was initially trying to make from brass. However, without a milling machine, I was at a dead end, so had to shelve the project. This is one such project issue that I've wondered if 3D printing could solve. Rigidity of the plastic would be a concern for me. I saw a 3D printer at Barnes & Noble of all places, and I checked out a couple of the things made on it. These were quite thin and too delicate for my needs. Those that had any areas of mass were made using a honeycomb foundation. This was obviously to cut down on weight and materials used, but it seemed as if it could be easily broken. Another concern would be how well a printed part handled things like screws. I would assume that like many other materials, a pilot hole would be drilled and the screw driven in. So, I wonder if the printed part could be attached to other things, or if other things could be attached to it. Forgive my ignorance, and if I ask too many questions, don't hesitate to stop me. I'm used to listening to people with zero mechanical knowledge who come up with ideas that are not possible the way they are suggesting, so I don't want to be one of them! Ha! ~michael
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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ThunderSqueak Regular user 126 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 3, 2016, Michael Baker wrote: First off, the fill pattern you saw was indeed to cut down on material used. You can however make a part as solid as you want. if it is just for looks, 20% infill is fine, and tbh rather strong... you would be surprised. However, if you need real strength, you can take it all the way up to 100% solid. At that point it will be a solid piece of plastic, the weak points will be in the layers so you just learn to position parts so that the "grain" is the right way to give you maximum strength. That being said, I have printed parts that I cant break by hitting with a hammer, let alone what most people do to them. Plastics can be quite strong. Also if you need flexibility there are other options, for instance, my printer can print in nylon if I want. On the matter of screws, you simply plan your project accordingly, that is... make as few sharp angles as possible. If you have two parts and one has 90 degree bends and the other has a slight curve .. the one with the curve will be a LOT stronger. sharp angles on the inside of a stress point tend to separate at the layers. You print the project with the holes already in place generally. No drilling should ever be needed. You can also use a standard tap and die set to make threads if you want, or go the cheap way and just use a new screw with sharp threads (preferably a machine screw type as they done put the stress on the layers that a wood screw will). People I hand parts too are usually very surprised at how sturdy the component is when printed, at least if you do things like use the proper temperatures for the material you are using. Also things like a heated bed and heated build chamber keep things from warping and maintains an optimal cohesion for the entire part. If you want to REALLY make a part strong, coat it in epoxy or if it is ABS, give it that vapor bath I was discussing earlier. That eliminated the layering issues. The whole thing is essentially one huge chunk of plastic. One of the nice things of a 3D printer is that when you plan a part out in CAD software, you can test the fit before you hit print. at least if the entire project is done in that same CAD. Programs like solidworks let you test out and predict mechanical stresses and strength before you even hit print. Solidworks is like autocad for 3D stuff so there is a learning curve and a few thousand dollars normally, it is cheap if you are a student or a veteran of the armed forces (thats how I picked it up for 20 dollars, I was in the USAF once upon a time back in the 90's). However if you want something really accessible, 123D by autodesk is free and really easy to use, its like building with blocks or legos and is what I used to design those cups so rapidly (inside my lunch break while I was eating). BTW Delrin is great stuff, a friend of mine uses it to make concealed holsters for firearms. Where I live no permit is needed to carry concealed, you just sort of assume everyone is packing. I have used it as well in projects before I picked up this 3D printer. The printer I use is a cel robox, they run about 1300-1700 USD currently. But you don't need something like that, granted, I will admit it is one of the least finicky printer I have ever used. It is automatic, so you just hit print, like you were printing a document and go get a cup of tea or coffee. Very spiffy little machine. -> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5mfbyNCIAA0GrE.jpg It is the blue and black thing in the corner. |
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gimpy2 Special user 960 Posts |
If a person learned how to use one of the programs and could build the computer model could it be sent out somewhere to be printed. I assume the computer design phase would be the expensive part of the process.
Best thread in the workshop in a long while. Very interesting.
Gimpy
www.gimpysmagic.com |
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
Hi Jessie,
Sorry I blew it on your name. Thanks for the pointers on the vapor process, I always wondered how that was done. Now I know.
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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ThunderSqueak Regular user 126 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 3, 2016, gimpy2 wrote: To answer your questions... Yes, you can send out things to be printed. You can even have items printed in metal, though that is expensive. If you are just using plastic, there are several options. 1. Look up your local makerspace or hackerspace. This is a group of people who get together and build things. Often most spaces will have a 3D printer (the one here has 17!) as well as CNC machines or laser cutters if it is a more established one. For a small membership fee, considering the tools you often get access too, you can do it yourself. Most people in these places are also willing to help you out with questions and setup of a project. 2. There are professional printing sites that you can find online, I have not used these but I see them advertised all the time. 3. There is https://www.3dhubs.com/ which may be the best choice for many of you. If you do this, I suggest trying it out with a small item first, perhaps something you download on thingiverse.com and doing a "trial run" to test the local printers. 4. If you want metal http://www.shapeways.com/ is an option. |
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ThunderSqueak Regular user 126 Posts |
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On Mar 3, 2016, Cliffg37 wrote: No worries, I have been called far worse |
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Michael Baker Eternal Order Near a river in the Midwest 11172 Posts |
Jessie,
Thank you for the detailed information, once again. I am among that group that would need a lot more knowledge before forging ahead, especially before considering any serious purchase of equipment. My curiosity needs to be converted to actual thinking about how it can best be utilized. Your posts have pointed me (and I'm sure others) in the right direction. While there are mass marketed tricks, most of us here are cottage industries with a very niche clientele. They appreciate high quality and are willing to spend money for it. We are happy to accommodate them. But, it is a narrow market. At this point, I can think of 3 or 4 projects that would be worth pursuing, but given the quantities likely before saturating the market, the volume would hardly justify a significant investment. If I have a chance to someday see the results of one or two of these, then it might encourage me to think of ways to expand the possibilities. Until then, I fear it would be an expensive toy that I would wear out on useless, frivolous ideas before making it work for me. Ha! If I can locate one of the groups that you mentioned, I may be lucky enough to find someone in the area who has the knowledge and equipment, but is craving ideas. It would also help if they have a proclivity for being a magic nerd! LOL! In the meantime, I'll have to put more consideration into investing in tools that I will get major use from, and that I already know enough about to get that use. ~michael
~michael baker
The Magic Company |
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