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Lempereur New user 85 Posts |
One thing that really bothers me with the Youtube ripoff magicians.
Not only do they rip off an effect from a top magician, both old and new, they rarely give the originating magician credit, unless they are trying to get views, then they list it in the video name, i.e. Shin Lim.
Cordially Yours,
Jim Rose |
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B. Edwards New user Ohio 50 Posts |
A while back, I picked up both volumes of Alex Elmsley's "Collected Works" Deluxe Editions (numbered and signed). As Mr.Elmsley had to touch the books to sign them, there is DNA of my favourite card magician, on my book shelf. Clearly, in this case at least... a giant plus to buying books.
Brian |
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Nosslrak New user 43 Posts |
Well, you kind of need books if you want to seriously learn magic don't you?
Also, I learned rather quickly that buying fancy deck of cards, props and gimmicks usually ended in disappointment. They are usually not as great as you imagining them to be. Buying books is a way for me to satisfy my lust for buying stuff and still end up satisfied. |
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algebraic Inner circle 1008 Posts |
Books don't get a virus.
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Tim Snyder Regular user Chicago, IL 112 Posts |
Two years ago when I began to seriously investigate magic, I did not find a list of 30 youtube videos that I needed to watch. I did find a list of 30 books that I needed to read. So over that time I have purchased Tarbell, Hilliard, Rice, Weber, Fitzkee, Ortiz, Tamariz, Wonder and etc. Hopefully, someday I will have the time to read them all. Nevertheless, I have built a library of magic fundamentals that I consider to be an heirloom. If my children do not have a strong interest in magic, I will have to find a young grasshopper to pass these literary treasures onto.
The other type of book that I love buying are the ones written by the magician who has not made a career out of "teaching magic". When they finally get around to writing THEIR book. The focus is always what have I learned about performing the art of magic over all these years, and what have I contributed to the art of magic over all these years. If you have any interest at all in a particular magician, who wouldn't enjoy hearing the responses to those questions? |
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Nosslrak New user 43 Posts |
Another reason to buy magic books is of course the reason that a lot of magic books are de facto limited editions, as in there are only so many books in existens and they might never be reprinted again. So when I see the "Only 1 book left" in the magic book store I do have an urge to buy it. I try to ignore this since it's not healthy for my wallet but I do feel a bit bad for not buying a book I know I might not have a chance of buying again, at least not new.
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Lempereur New user 85 Posts |
Quote:
On Feb 21, 2017, B. Edwards wrote: Now THAT is REAL MAGIC!
Cordially Yours,
Jim Rose |
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Lempereur New user 85 Posts |
Actually, I have to have both. One reinforces the other.
I am right handed, but becasue I have played lead guitar since I was 15, my left hand has more dexterity that my right hand. Thus I handle the cards like a lefty, i.e. I hold the deck in the right hand. This makes almost everything backwards for me in the books. The DVDs provide clarity when needed! Jim Rose
Cordially Yours,
Jim Rose |
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
Oh what a pity you hold your deck with your right because you think your left hand has to de the work. I strongly disagree with that. As for the piano, the left hand is the leading and smart one, which sustains everything, giving the tempo, the atmosphere amongst other things.
Maybe it is not too late to change. Or you have reached high proficiency this way. When you are watching you performing, try to see if there is a feeling of dissonance between your hands movements and general body language. |
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
As for the subject, there is really nice thoughts about DVD versus book in this thread. And I agree for most of it.
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
REAL magicians buy books, a lot of books. At least intelligent magicians do. They don;t look for shortcuts as shortcuts ultimately lead to shortcomings. I come from the old school of learning so I have literally thousands of books on magic and many other subjects. I love big, old, magic books and yes they are expensive. But you get so much more info in a book than a DVD, or single effect. They also only become more valuable as time goes on. I have collected magic books, DVDS and tricks for almost 40 years now. I love having a vast supply of knowledge and resources at my disposal as it always gives me something to look forward to, and finding all the hidden gems in books that most will never find because they are too lazy to read and look for quick answers online etc. For me books are special and offer a great journey, and is how I got my start in magic.
I love looking at walls of books and knowing that I can just pick one up and turn to any random page and study a trick or read them completely. I was brought up learning the hard way, and the correct way as there are no short cuts to true greatness. You also become more literate and intelligent overall through reading. I also love DVDS as it is great to watch sample presentations, timing of sleights and movies, patter, misdirection etc. So books and DVDS compliment each other well. Books just give you way more information for the price, and are far more valuable. I thought the Tarbell set was expensive back when I got my first set almost 40 years ago, but they paid for themselves after about 3-4 shows as a kid. You can also take a book with you almost anywhere you go and do not have to reply on batteries or electronics to view them, at least not in the day time. So for me they have a strong appeal, but I also love DVDS as well and I feel both combines offer the best learning experience. I especially love "encyclopedia" type DVDS so I can look up moves that may not be totally clear in print. I always loved getting the biggest, most technically difficult books that I could find. I also especially love magic theory type books as well since I also post a lot of essays on that subject as well, and of course Magic Periodicals are one of my favorites if not my favorite overall. But I love them all, especially the big, old, OOP ones that are hard to find now. I prefer a real book over an ebook also, but I will take an ebook if I have to and I do have all ebooks as back ups as well for ease of searching keywords etc. So really they are all important. But books is how I started long ago and still give the most bang for the buck. But I do love DVDS also, especially large sets, and encyclopedia ones as I said. I love all of the periodicals especially Apocalypse, Hugard's Magic Monthly, Pabular, The Phoenix, The Jinx, The Sphinx, Magic Menu, Best of Friends, Magical Arts Journal, Topps, Spell-binder, The Gen, Magic Wand and all the Magic Magazines etc. Hard to find many in book form but I got most of those and many more in book and ebook form. Also Genni, MUM, The Linking Ring, Magic Magazine etc. HUGE books, The Secret Ways of Al Baker, Greater Magic, The James File, Tarbell, Mind, Myth , Magick, Stanyon's Magic, and sets like Definitive Sankey. AOA, etc. So I know I will always stay busy for at least a few more lifetimes lol. Funny also I said on here a few years ago that it would be nice to see a Tarbell DVD set, or videos of every trick. Most scoffed at the idea in my thread and said it would not be possible and take too long etc. Then it happened when Dan Harlan took on the project and turned out to be a great visual reference for the books. They are still making them and have many to go lol. I look forward to having them all also.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
Also REAL magic is not just about "secrets" or "free secrets." It is a journey, and if done correctly proves to be very rewarding in the long run. Usually if information is accessed too easily and without much work it is not appreciated, and treated with less respect. Whereas us old school magicians had to earn out way the hard and long way through many hours, days. months, and years of reading. We also became better magicians for it, and do not expose what we learned because we respect the art and make a living doing magic. Kids these days get something for free and easy on the internet, so then they do the same thing because they were never taught the value of it, and why this should not be done. They are more concerned about getting attention because they are insecure and self-centered. For them magic is nothing more than a passing phase.
All of those kids who made exposure videos years ago are long gone and no longer post, and since they only focused on secrets their performances were lousy. Had they worked on the effect long enough to be able to do it proficiently they may have respected it more. But they were more concerned about exposing it and causing outrage and getting attention on themselves. But as I said luckily these types do not last long. They don't read books either, they just look for pirated videos. So all of the good stuff is safe anyway. Jeff McBride quoted Richard Hatch in his video on "Essential Magic Books", "If you want new ideas read old books, if you want old ideas read new books."
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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SvenSigma Regular user Germany 151 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 12, 2017, sirbrad wrote: Just waiting for the opportunity to start the subscription from lesson 1 because I started at 59. You get 1 through 8 at reasonable prices, but filling up 50 lessons at 20$ each is prohibitively expensive. In another thread Dan Harlan mentioned that this "subscribe from 1" is on the roadmap, but so far no date has been promised. Hopefully not, wenn the last lesson is "on air."
It takes a baby in the belly six months to learn how to put the thumb in the mouth.
The rest of life is essentially the same problem. |
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SvenSigma Regular user Germany 151 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 12, 2017, sirbrad wrote: I imagine that shortly after magic books became popular magicians said "REAL magicians don't read books. They search and learn from a mentor and meticulously take their own notes. They don't look for shortcuts as shortcuts ultimately lead to shortcomings." And they would have been right as well. In comparison to that approach, magicians are spoon fed by books. Which makes me wonder if reading books is more a matter of social distinction. It could also a sign that "old school" magicians are threatened by the disruption caused first by VHS video, then by DVD, now by online videos (streaming or download). I think in the past many magicians had a nice income not only from their shows but also from tutoring fees. Now some outstanding magicians (like Dan Harlan with his Tarbell course project) can live very well from that, while the others get nothing any more. In the end it does not matter from which medium an information comes. Also the argument of information density of books does not count in my eyes. Any one who owns hundreds of magic books and states that he has read all of them and really retained substiantially more than one or two percent of the information is either a genius (rare) or not quite truthful to himself. Not different from people who watch hundreds of hours of magic lessons on video, if it comes to that. Summing it up it could be that magicians buy magic books for the following reasons, not all of the valid for everybody: 1. Books are really a great (if not the best) medium for learning magic. 2. It makes them feel like REAL magicians. Which does not necessarily mean that they ARE real magicians. 3. They can look down upon people who do not prefer books as medium for learning magic. So even mediocre magicians can look down upon great magicians that have not learned from books but from videos. 4. They want others to use books as primary learning medium. Selfishly so, if they write books and do not also make videos. Not selfish, if they just believe 1. to be true. and, a final bonus: 5. Magic is just an extremely conservative business. It is old. It is a stronghold of male brotherhood. Innovation outside of inventing new effects and methods questions this. New media are an innovation, therefore they threaten the old school guys. *Turning on irony.* Even women can download magic videos nowadays. In the old days no decent magic shopkeeper would heave let them into the store. Next you see women producing magic videos as well. Beware! *Turning off irony.*
It takes a baby in the belly six months to learn how to put the thumb in the mouth.
The rest of life is essentially the same problem. |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 13, 2017, SevenSigma wrote: I never said DVDS were bad I stated I love them as well, and I am not threatened by videos as I said you just get so much more info from books. I have retained A LOT over reading books for 40 years now, especially since magic has been my profession for about 30 years. I doubt books were ever shunned upon as they have been around so long and reading is how most people have learned stuff for a very long time. I don't agree with finding and needing mentors because in my area there were not mentors or other magicians, and till this day there are none in my local area. I did not meet any other magicians until many years later when I traveled, and usually I was the most experienced magician when I finally did. I travel about 60 miles to clubs once in awhile and none of them live near me there. As I said I love all forms of learning and I combine them, but books have a wider appeal to me for the reasons stated. However one can be a mentor through a book, and obviously a teacher. There is just no back and forth interaction. That is a great bonus but certainly not necessary. I wish their were other magicians when I first started, and even the closest magic shop was like 60 miles and still is. But I learn from all types of media. I am not against video as some are, and I am old school but I use what works. I just find that books give more value and information for the price. Especially when you have the time to read a lot of them.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 13, 2017, SevenSigma wrote: Yeah I asked Dan why they went up in price as they were $4.99-$9.99 up until like Lesson 20 or something. So I got all of those and I wanted to buy them all at once for $9.99. I could buy them all anyway at $19.99 but would be quite awhile before I Was able to get through them all. So I will probably buy them in chunks of 5 or at the very least once a month would be perfect and work on each one per month. I would prefer them all on DVD so I do not have ti worry about storing them or being online.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
Also I would not consider books being spoon fed by any means. It is a lot more work and far more time consuming to get through a lot of books than DVDS. Although I have been doing so for about 37 years now I have not even come close to reading all that I have. But I don't have to, nor do I need to retain all of the information. I pick and choose and I have everything that I like to do on file, and at one given time I only keep about maybe 10-20 effects in my repertoire that I change in and out. But the knowledge is all there and waiting for me when I am ready for it. I can pick and choose what I want when I want. I also do this with DVDS as well, or IDL's that I have. I utilize them all but books are still my favorite as far as how much info is available. But I still love the visual reference of videos.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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SvenSigma Regular user Germany 151 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 13, 2017, sirbrad wrote: This is what I meant with my remark on "when magic books became popular." Sure, nowadays nobody will understand books as spoon-feeding. Let's just assume that in 2077 you can get it uploaded directly into your brain, then nobody will understand today's discussions
It takes a baby in the belly six months to learn how to put the thumb in the mouth.
The rest of life is essentially the same problem. |
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SvenSigma Regular user Germany 151 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 13, 2017, sirbrad wrote: Especially since the card magic stuff in Tarbell may be good but there is so much material out there, including great DVDs, that the money for value of Tarbell card magic videos is less than for other topics. Just thinking of Card College and the stuff from Big Blind Media...
It takes a baby in the belly six months to learn how to put the thumb in the mouth.
The rest of life is essentially the same problem. |
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sirbrad Inner circle PA 2096 Posts |
Yeah I already went through all the books countless times over almost 40 years but it is just cool to have them all on video and see someone else do the routines. I have a ton of repeat material with cards of course so don't really need to see it all again and again. But I love the encyclopedia nature of it.
The great trouble with magicians is the fact that they believe when they have bought a certain trick or piece of apparatus, and know the method or procedure, that they are full-fledged mystifiers. -- Harry Houdini
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