The first phase of Misled but done with a Sharpie would make no sense. The first phase of misled is the healing of a hole in the bill. A pencil logical and plausibly can poke a hole through a bill but a Sharpie is logically would not do so in such a fashion.

As for the pencil being out of place in this day and age, people still widely use yellow no. 2 pencils. It never went away and are not harder and harder to find. It's quite recognizable and still appears innocent and organic. It's still very widely used, especially in office environments (I was surprised by this as well assuming we all just use pens now but I've seen them widely used and always stocked at my office).

I'll repost this here.. this is from a rather long post on face book but I out it here for records.

Hello Gentlemen. I have sat this evening and had the pleasure if reading through this rather lengthy thread. First and foremost thank you to Mark and William who have taken the time to look at all the facts and formed an opinion which they did not mind voicing.

Just as a small side note. I did not ask them to do this and I thank them for keeping an open mind

Now lets get on to the matter at hand. I released my version of the sharpie through bill which is topic of this thread. Tim brought up some concerns about it and in his original post stated that it was an exact rip off of his misled effect implying it was the same gimmick and all etc.

I hated the thought that he may think this so I approached him on facebook pm and we had a chat about it. During this chat I realised that he had stated I had ripped off his effect with out knowing the method/gimmick of my own which I felt was a little unfair but I continued with the conversation to come to a happy medium.

which I thought we had after I explained what my gimmick was. He still felt the effect was the same but the gimmick was different. or at least that how the conversation appears. We went on after that to me praising his mislead and even offering to no only promote his if release a version for shapie with his method but help research and develop it.

it is something id love to see happen.

after this we had a second conversation where Tim had then decided that it was no longer a ripoff of his released mislead but now that after some thought it is a ripoff of his unreleased version which he "alludes" to in his notes.

unfortunately his note hints to a method which is like Just Passin' Thru by Russ Niedzwiecki. which again is nothing like the gimmick I have created here. also as Marc has pointed out "alluding" to a method isn't releasing it. especially when you do not state what the method is... it simply was not released so even if it was the same there could be no way I know. I would encourage you to scroll up and check out that conversation as it explains it well and there is no real need for me to go over it again.

So lets get to the point. Upon discovering Tim was not happy tried to have conversations with him about the subject I even offered up a copy of mines to give him all the facts which he did not accept.

at the end of all the conversations and after I invited him to chat with the producers etc. I stated we would give him as much time as we can to help in this situation he stated "There's a chance they'll do the right thing and give me more than time." Which to me implies he simply wanted to try and strong arm us for some money.

So at the end of all this BOTH gimmicks Tim has released and "alluded" to are different from the gimmick I have made here. This gimmick simply could not be made in a pencil.. its impossible. I have also contacted a few impartial third parties and asked there opinions and they all agree this is different so no harm no foul etc but again I am always happy to have a conversation about it.

I happily invite anyone to come and chat to me about it. Im a very approachable man who tried to keep a high standard in my ethics.

I offered to help time make his method workable for shaprie and even praised the idea.. id love to see it. ive simply offered my gimmick which is different and offer people and alternative.. I also highly praise and credit Tim and even though I feel like I have been some what mistreated in this ill still happily credit his. we all stand on the shoulders of giants after all.



Any one is free to contact me and ill do my best to help at any time. I feel I was very respectful to Tim in our conversations and anyone else will get the same respect.


however the last thing I can say on the matter is the gimmicks are different, it is simply impossible to make what I have done with a pencil but I do whole heart idly credit Tim and ill happily stand on any platform and tell people to look at his.. its a great method for this effect after all.

I have posted this and I noticed a few typos. I tried to catch them all but let me apologise if any got through.. with predictive text some times you are fighting a loosing battle.

After reading all of the posts made about the situation both here and on fb, and after having a long conversation with Alan, this whole thing is ridiculous. The method Alan used is not the same as misled. that's first and foremost. Second the method that Tim alludes to in his notes, but never directly states, is different than Alans. While the manner of creating the gimmick utilizes similar actions, it would be 100% impossible to perform Alan's method with a pencil. The fact that everything can be handed out is indicative of that, which you would never be able to do if you tried to gaff it similarly with a pencil. I totally respect Tim as a creator, and if the method for this was identical, I would have to agree with Tim. However, this is tantamount of saying that Kostya Kimlat's triumph is exactly the same as Cheek to Cheek because they are the same effect. Many effects share a similar plot, but that doesn't make them rip offs of each other. Just my two cents as someone from the outside looking in

As an owner of Misled I was considering buying this 'update' until I noticed it's less than half the effect, you have to make your own gimmick ($20 and none supplied?!), and it doesn't even come with the blessing of its true originator. I'll save my money for something that's not a poor rip-off, thanks.

It's not a rip off bob but thank you for considering.

Claiming something is an "update" to a famous effect when in fact it's a lot worse, and using the fame of the original without consent, that my friend is riding on someone else's coattails and why it's a rip off.

This is the Misled effect using the Misled method. Nothing significant have been added.
The difference is on the level "...but I do it with a blue backed deck!"
Or using waxed cards instead of roughed for Invisible Deck.
Or using brass weights instead of lead weights in Chinese Sticks.

I am curious if you have both and if you do, I am certainly curious how other people who say they have both say the methods are different?

I own misled and just bought this effect used on the Café. I now very interested in receiving it to compare the two.

I am still waiting for mine to arrive. Planning on doing a graphical review on it. Having read the posts the methods between two versions sound very different. But TStone's blue backed deck analogy worries me. If the analogy is correct, isn't it basically the same gimmick?

TStone, can you confirm if the original Misled gimmick works on the sharpie? In that case I'll call and cancel my order to support the original before it's too late..

Not even close to the same

V.I.P.
2283 Posts
Profile of Alan Rorrison Send Private Message
Post Icon Posted: Dec 18, 2016 08:05 am Alan Rorrison is on-line Reply with Quote Report this post to forum moderator There are no likes for this post.0
I'll repost this here.. this is from a rather long post on face book but I out it here for records.

Hello Gentlemen. I have sat this evening and had the pleasure if reading through this rather lengthy thread. First and foremost thank you to Mark and William who have taken the time to look at all the facts and formed an opinion which they did not mind voicing.

Just as a small side note. I did not ask them to do this and I thank them for keeping an open mind

Now lets get on to the matter at hand. I released my version of the sharpie through bill which is topic of this thread. Tim brought up some concerns about it and in his original post stated that it was an exact rip off of his misled effect implying it was the same gimmick and all etc.

I hated the thought that he may think this so I approached him on facebook pm and we had a chat about it. During this chat I realised that he had stated I had ripped off his effect with out knowing the method/gimmick of my own which I felt was a little unfair but I continued with the conversation to come to a happy medium.

which I thought we had after I explained what my gimmick was. He still felt the effect was the same but the gimmick was different. or at least that how the conversation appears. We went on after that to me praising his mislead and even offering to no only promote his if release a version for shapie with his method but help research and develop it.

it is something id love to see happen.

after this we had a second conversation where Tim had then decided that it was no longer a ripoff of his released mislead but now that after some thought it is a ripoff of his unreleased version which he "alludes" to in his notes.

unfortunately his note hints to a method which is like Just Passin' Thru by Russ Niedzwiecki. which again is nothing like the gimmick I have created here. also as Marc has pointed out "alluding" to a method isn't releasing it. especially when you do not state what the method is... it simply was not released so even if it was the same there could be no way I know. I would encourage you to scroll up and check out that conversation as it explains it well and there is no real need for me to go over it again.

So lets get to the point. Upon discovering Tim was not happy tried to have conversations with him about the subject I even offered up a copy of mines to give him all the facts which he did not accept.

at the end of all the conversations and after I invited him to chat with the producers etc. I stated we would give him as much time as we can to help in this situation he stated "There's a chance they'll do the right thing and give me more than time." Which to me implies he simply wanted to try and strong arm us for some money.

So at the end of all this BOTH gimmicks Tim has released and "alluded" to are different from the gimmick I have made here. This gimmick simply could not be made in a pencil.. its impossible. I have also contacted a few impartial third parties and asked there opinions and they all agree this is different so no harm no foul etc but again I am always happy to have a conversation about it.

I happily invite anyone to come and chat to me about it. Im a very approachable man who tried to keep a high standard in my ethics.

I offered to help time make his method workable for shaprie and even praised the idea.. id love to see it. ive simply offered my gimmick which is different and offer people and alternative.. I also highly praise and credit Tim and even though I feel like I have been some what mistreated in this ill still happily credit his. we all stand on the shoulders of giants after all.



Any one is free to contact me and ill do my best to help at any time. I feel I was very respectful to Tim in our conversations and anyone else will get the same respect.


however the last thing I can say on the matter is the gimmicks are different, it is simply impossible to make what I have done with a pencil but I do whole heart idly credit Tim and ill happily stand on any platform and tell people to look at his.. its a great method for this effect after all.

I have posted this and I noticed a few typos. I tried to catch them all but let me apologise if any got through.. with predictive text some times you are fighting a loosing battle.

Why are you flooding this thread with a verbatim copy & paste of stuff you've already dumped here? Are you trying to bury the comments where so many people are pointing out that your version is an inferior, overpriced, unethical rip off? Coincidence I am sure...

The post address any issues of people claiming it's a rip off it simply isn't. The gimmick I have her is impossible to make in pencil. I thought it might be easy than typing every time.

So it's now inferior? I'm guessing that imply it's different other wise it would be on par?

Which would means it's a different method and simply an alternative?

The difference is on the level of changing from a forcing deck to a riffle force in Cardiology. I.e. minute and trivial.
In short, it is a semi-impromptu quick fix to a Sharpie which enables you to do the second part of the revised Misled routine (1990), which is identical to the original Misled routine (1981).

Yes it's inferior, there's less than half the original routine with no build-up and it can't be examined. It also costs more and comes with less, you could have at least supplied a pre-made gimmick to aid your pretence that it has some kind of new value.

So Tom, just to be clear here sir. have you went from saying that this is the exact same gimmick as mislead to saying its a different gimmick on a sharpie that will allow for a single phase pen through bill. I don't want to put words in your mouth but id be interested in the change on stance?

the gimmick made here would dimply be impossible to make on a pencil. impossible.

Tim can have it all ways here? at first and with out knowing my method he said mines was a direct rip off. Then after I show him the method he says its a ripp of of a method he never released and invented before I was born.. Im sure you can see the impossibility in that. Then he decided to move on and say ok its different but inferior..


what angel is he sticking to here? he cant have it all ways

So you "created" an "upgrade" of an effect that is also at the same time completely different to that effect, but you're happy to ride on the fame and prior success of that effect by quoting that effect - even though you vehemently deny yours is essentially the same effect.

Pot, kettle?

Oh my stance has always been the same. I have never said the effect is different. its the same as many pen through bills out there. the gimmick/method to achieve is what I created. I also don't claim its an upgrade but simply an alternative method to doing a pen through bill.

Alan, there's no change of stance. You are hawking the Misled effect using the Misled method. The change you tout as "a different method" is a minor and trivial variation that grants no measurable advantages or improvements. That you refuse to acknowledge this is just crook tactics.

Sans = Without.

SansMinds = Without Minds.

Mindless.

Yep, pretty much sums up the ethics and originality of putting out stuff like this...