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evikshin Special user 893 Posts |
Forgive the dramatic title!
For most of my coin magic career, I've used half dollars. The past couple months I decided to push myself: The main reason being that I splurged and bought a Peace Dollar Expanded Shell set from my buddy Todd Lassen, and it was going to waste from lack of use! So I got fed up, and decided I wanted to do at least 1 full performance for real spectators (i.e. not other magicians) with silver dollars. I practiced real hard, relearned my angles, relearned several of my palming techniques, and guess what, the other night I was working a house party, and I completely killed. I performed coins across (with the shell) as well as a one coin routine and coin under watch. I didn't flash, I didn't stumble. A lot of my prior beliefs about small hands went out the window. I'm now a believer in silver dollars! I've found that because I have small hands, when I do magic with silver dollars, it tends to hit the spectator that much harder. I think subconsciously people are bewildered because it doesn't seem like my hands can hide the coin. In fact after I'll make a comment to them like "I don't know how the coin is vanishing, I wished I could hide these coins in my hand, but I can't, don't you see how big they are?" And the spectators actually believe me. It was 2 months of hard work though. I had to relearn several techniques because they didn't look as good with the larger coins. I had to really sit down and practice in front of a mirror and see myself from different angles and different ***LIGHT SOURCES*** to check for any possibility of flashing. And if I flashed, I would adjust accordingly. It was tedious, but eventually I got it. I encourage anyone who ever considered using large coins to just go for it! Your spectators will love you for it. |
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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
Well done it's great to hear that your hard work has paid off for you Even world class coin worker Curtis Kam who's know for his work with dollars prefers and uses smaller coins for magic up close and in the spectators hands, with that said I think learning how to handle both is the way to go.
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Poof-Daddy Inner circle Considering Stopping At Exactly 5313 Posts |
I find that after working with Dollar size coins, halves are much easier to CP. Unfortunately, it also seems to make Quarters harder to CP. I can still do all 3 sizes which is what (I believe) everyone should strive for. Just a couple days ago, in another thread pertaining to coin sizes, Ben Salinas wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 6, 2017, BenSalinas wrote: I really find that a great way to look at it. "MOST" effects can be done with any size coin (or a washer from the hardware store even) but the "affect" of the "effect" can change a bit with a different size coin in different situations. It is 100% more impromptu to borrow quarters for an effect but halves can be seen by more people at once and dollars even more. You just have to determine which is going to be better for your current situation and adapt on the fly. This is why I tend to practice with all 3 sizes and adjust what effects I am able to best perform in what situations.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure
Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased). |
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Dr. E, how you been my friend...Hope all is well.
You raise a good post here, and I like the larger dollar size coins too. I actually use both sizes interchangeably and stay in shape using both by doing my "REViSiTED" where both sizes are used. If I'm doing something like my "FlySki" I always use silver dollars because they are more dynamic to see being larger. If I do my "KrazyKoinZ" Across, I always do it with half dollar coins because they are just easier to more readily manipulate and hide better. But guys like Ponta The Smith have small hands and only uses dollar size coins, and is just amazing with them. On the other hand, I've seen guys with large hands using half dollars and the coins seemed lost...Maybe how I'd feel if I was doing tricks with quarters. So, as warren points out, it's good to use both, but when you can really work the larger coins, they feel pretty darn good and tend to show much better too.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
I have large hands and I still prefer halves. I use dollars only for a three flyesque routine, just because they show up really well.
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Hare Veteran user 323 Posts |
I've used Morgan dollars exclusively for decades, and I've always believed the idea that folks with smaller hands can only perform using halves or quarters is a psychological, illusory concept. They just hold themselves back because of the idea, like a kid who hasn't ridden a bicycle because it looks like you would just fall off on something balanced on two thin wheels.
It just isn't true. My own hands are very average sized- on the delicate side, compared to most men my height. "T. Nelson Downs, who had small hands, admitted that he often dropped coins while mastering a new trick. Among such tricks was his most famous: "The Miser's Dream..." Downs seems to have done pretty well handling coins, and he wasn't a big guy. Like Ponta the Smith, he didn't let his hand size hold him back. I'm a professional musician and artist, and I've never once, in my entire career, heard a fellow artist in either field complain about hand size being too large or small for using equipment. This seems to be a "magicians only" worry. It comes down to what you do, with what you have. Now, some tricks call for smaller change or common coins as a part of the routine- or, there are too many coins being used to effectively handle really large ones at once- but aren't these points an entirely different matter? For everyday coin magic, coin size greatly increases the mystery and enhances the overall effect. For this reason, it's worth the adjustment- and that is all it boils down to- to adapting to larger coins. Finally, silver coins are lovely. They tinkle where other coins clank. They seem to have shiny life of their own. Aesthetically, large silver coins simply present a more tasteful appearance than their lowly copper-nickel brethren. All my opinions, of course!
"Better described in The Amateur Magician's Handbook"
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cperkins Special user 700 Posts |
Totally agree with Hare.
Silver dollars are the way to go and you can adapt quite easily with practice. You have undoubtedly mastered far more difficult SOH than you would adapting to dollar coins. Anything ....anything at all which makes your presentation stronger or more visual and interesting or beautiful, is worth the work to accomplish. Hey, there is a little irony here too. Certain applications are actually easier...a more natural looking classic palm for instance....
To see a difficult thing lightly handled gives the impression of the impossible.
(Goethe) |
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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
As someone who actually has smaller hands than most being only 5ft 3 in height I would have to disagree that all SOH can be done with dollars, for example a key technique that I use all the time when standing is the goshman pinch for which dollar just are not practical.
Then on the other hand when I perform 3 fly half dollar size coins just are not practical so I'm a firm believer in the Cutis Kam school of thought regarding the size of coins that one uses for various effects ie there is a time and a place for both. |
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evikshin Special user 893 Posts |
Thanks for the responses everyone!
Marion, I agree I think big hands and small coins is a recipe for spectators thinking the wrong thing about our magic. Warren, Curtis Kam has mentioned that the disadvantage of larger coins is when doing magic into people's hands as they may have trouble holding a stack of coins and may prematurely open their hands. I have a few psychological subtleties which I feel help alleviate this. Poof Daddy, good point about practicing with all types, especially more common currency like quarters etc. For this very reason I thought about getting an expanded quarter shell. Now, what adjustments do you all make, either mental or physical, when transitioning to larger coins? For me I had to adjust the finger pressure and hand positioning of my finger palm as the larger coin made my fingers spread apart leading to windows. I fixed this after trial and error. Also, I had to build a new callous for my classic palm, as the callous I had from half dollars did no good LOL. Lastly, I now survey my spectators and environment a lot more closely as the larger coin does limit ones angles somewhat, so the premagic mindset/set up is even more important. I'll even take note of the light source and make sure it's not shining directly into my hands, just to avoid anymore possible flashing. |
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warren Inner circle uk 4138 Posts |
As I only use dollars for 3 fly I haven't really put much thought into it although as lately my interest has been with the CSB set and the Sun and Moon gaff I have been playing around with the CP using a dollar however it doesn't look anywhere near as natural in my hands compared with smaller coins, I have no problem with finger palming dollars though and actually find it easier with them for some reason.
That said you have inspired me so I will indeed have a play around with my dollar coins over the next few days as I do like using both even with my small hands haha |
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
I can classic palm 4 halves but not 4 dollars. I've had to adjust somewhat because this silly tumor in my brain has caused my hands to get bigger than they should, in a sort of arthritis way.
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Tom G Inner circle 2895 Posts |
Not stopping with Curtis, but David Roth, David Neighbors, Kainoa Harbottle, and Michael Rubinstein use halves. I started out using dollars and could do most of what I wanted, being that I have small hands. But when doing mirror work, the dollars looked so big in my hands, that proportionally it looked weird. Sold all my dollar stuff years ago and have stuck to halves since.
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evikshin Special user 893 Posts |
Fonda, I can classic palm about 3 silver dollars, 4 is pushing it. I can do 4 if the coins have sharp milling.
Tom G, I'm of the opinion that if you do the tricks you do with halves, but with dollar coins, to the specs it would look even more amazing, even if it looks strange to you in the mirror, of course, just my opinion. People are free to do what they wish, I'm only reporting on my own experience. Best |
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Poof-Daddy Inner circle Considering Stopping At Exactly 5313 Posts |
I can CP 6 Morgans but I cannot do much with them at that point. 4 is about the best I can do and still be able to do other things like drop 1 at a time. I am 5'11" and weigh aprox 325lbs. My hands need size XL in gloves. Surprisingly, I do not have "fat hands" or fingers. (Most of my weight is gut). My fingers are medium to skinny with no windows (I wish my computer had no windows) <- sarcasm . I actually do my best work with halves but over the last couple years, Morgans are rising. I can also still pull off quarters but they get harder the more I work on dollars and I have no idea why but others have told me they have the same issue. I do have several quarter gaffs that I love to use as well as Half gaffs and dollar gaffs. I guess I will diligently practice with all 3 sizes.
As if I am not having enough issues with different sizes, weights and palms, my local shop is closing VERY soon and I picked up Joe Mogars book "Digital Effects" by Steve Beam oop and I got it for $15. It is a huge hardback on nothing but thimble magic. I then got some thimbles from Joe and his dvd (visually covering parts of the book). Amazingly, they use most of the same palms we use for coins so I figured "Great, this is going to be a fun month, then I can maybe perform something at a gig I have next month". Boy oh boy was I ever wrong. This is some truly hardcore stuff and coins are much easier to work with. However, I am remaining vigilant, doing finger drills, stretches and exercises for about 1-2 hrs a day and working on the basic palms / moves for another hour. It will take quite some time but I will prevail. Anyone who does thimble work that has tips, please PM me or post to my thread in the proper place for thimble magic. Thanks edit: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&forum=4
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure
Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased). |
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Labracabrador New user 15 Posts |
So I have only been using half dollars, but this thread got me interested in switching to dollar coins.
Can you guys give me some names of people who use only dollar coins in their performances (preferably with links) ? Because on every dvd/book that I have seen, it's half dollars that are being used, which really makes me think that there is a good reason for that. Also, is it harder to find gimmicks for the dollar coins? P.S. Whats the name of this routine by Curtis Kam? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XESQFzWMYZQ |
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tonsofquestions Inner circle 1802 Posts |
There's no "good reason", other than preference. Kainoa has a good bit (I think in Coins 101 on Reel Magic) where he talks about sizes, here's one part: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzzecGZoU7g. But he also talks later about being able to palm more (especially if they're thinner, like Barber halves), and sometimes using bigger ones for larger audiences for visibility.
I think you'll have a hard time finding someone who *only* uses dollar coins, since most people will use a variety of sizes. If you're really looking for something, I think Ponta the Smith (in Sick) http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/2107 and Dafedas B (Kata) http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S20833 both use primarily dollar sized coins. But their stuff is not for the faint-hearted, or the inexperienced. I've also only seen trailers for them, I own neither. |
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Tom G Inner circle 2895 Posts |
You also have to consider the magic you'll be doing. Lot's of palming? Edge grip? Gaffs? If you use gaffs you have to also consider the prices. EG for me with halves is tough enough.
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Nothing wrong with dramatic titles or using dollar size coins.
At 5'5" my hands are relatively small. While I like doing The Goblet and other signature (thanks Curtis) with my Morgans - I also find work with Penny and Nickel (USA) size coins able to drop jaws. Truth and coin work is in the hand and eye if the beholder. Actually I believe the word truth can be preference. Harris Still too old to know it all
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
Yea, youre right, the coins themselves do make a difference, evekshin. I've been using the same coins for a long time. Still, there's that one that sometimes falls.
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fonda57 Inner circle chicago 3078 Posts |
Yea, youre right, the coins themselves do make a difference, evekshin. I've been using the same coins for a long time. Still, there's that one that sometimes falls.
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