Hi All,

I am thinking of making my own silks. Has anyone done this? (Yes, buying them would be a lot easier.)

What kind of fabric would work best? My impression of silks for sale is they are some sort of polyester blend. Has anyone tried using actual silk?

I have been sewing by hand for 30 years, so that is not an issue.

Thanks,

HLT

Oh Henry! (not the candy bar! YOU!)

Silks are SILK! From long experience, SILK is best for any use in which the "silk" must be compressed for van. or prod. China & Japan SILK has been used for years. I have RICE PICTURE SILKS (Dragon, 6' and 36") & Clown, for example which are years old, and, still look just fine! When I occasionally use a Merv Taylor Tambourine, or a P&L Phantom Tube (Ade Duval routine) I use 24" solid color SILKS, with a 6' Dragon, in the Tambor, or a string of 12" solids tied together, and a 6' Dragon.

For some knot tricks, such as the "disappearing square knot" (Scot's "Discovery") now called the "Slydini Knots" by the young guys, or for the Sympathetic Silks, Nylon, or some polyesters, will stand the pressure and twisting better. I use a combination of SILK (rainbow) and, polyester for the 20th Century Silks. For Serpentine and, or Silk Thru Mike, I use SILK. (It depends on how they're being used.)

For tricks like Dante's "Lazy Magician", I use polys, but, silks could be used, as the knots don't need to be tied tightly.

Bob Sanders imports the best SILK from the Orient. Richard Hughes also sells top quality SILK. Both of them hem silks. They can provide silks with a narrow flat hem. Abbott's also has good solid colors, and tie dyes.

Lemme know, what you are planning, and I can advise you in more detail.

I bought some very fine silk yardage from Dharma Trading. Very nice material. I spent a long time trying to carefully hem the edges and ended up shoving the fabric into a bag for later efforts. Seemed a great way to save a few bucks, but my success was not great. I'd rather buy silks now.

Dharma will sell you every kind of dye you want, too. Good folks.

Patrick

Thank you Dick and Patrick for your responses.

As for what I am planning, I am currently playing with TTs right now (I am keeping up with C&B as well). In at least two tricks in Scot's Discoverie (one a cut-and-restored rope, the other is the reappearance of a burned thread), I believe their use would be natural (although the text does not mention them).

Of course, silks and TTs go hand in hand. I actually have a small silk that came with my Klutz book (which I bought years ago--a wonderful little thing), but I have no idea where that particular one is located. So, my priority is to have a silk that I can practice with.

As for making my own, in part of my game (notably contests) making ones own props is definitely an advantage. And I have definitely had adventures in hand sewing, some with very good outcomes but others being "shoved into a bag for later efforts." But for general performances it does not really matter, so long as it looks the part. Which leads to the question about silk silks.

As someone who has witnessed metal finishings give way to plastic, and the disappearance of car bumpers (now that's a vanishing act!), wool turn into acrylic and polyester, etc., I assumed that historically silks were actually silk. But with all natural things, the use of actual silk has given way to petroleum magically spun into thread, and I figured the same had occurred with silks.

Of course like most people I have a fairly limited budget, so purchasing hand-hemmed real silk silks are beyond me (but thanks for the recommendations--I will definitely save those for future use). In fact, what I really need is some advice on selecting silks. I need inexpensive ones that work well, and some suggestions where I might find them.

I bought a yard of cheap poly-cotton blend this weekend to play around with, but the fabric is really too thick.

Thanks,

HLT

I would think it's one of those things that's not worth the effort...

It's worth the effort when you want silks that are not commercially available anywhere else, like Qua-Fiki's "Fish or Cut Bait" which was the finale for a library show made up of his Go Fish Card Tricks, found in The Wizards' Journal #20.

http://magicnook.com/WizJ20/06-IMG_7100.JPG

Or his "Mis-made Jack" which was needed for his Halloween Themed show, and found in The Wizards' Journal #21.

http://magicnook.com/WizJ21/MismadeFace.jpg

The above pictured silks were made from Dharma Trading Company pre-cut and hemmed white silks and colored with their paints and dyes.

We consider learning how to design and color your own silks is an important Wiz Kid skill, just so we don't have to hear Wiz Kids whining about "It's impossible to do! It's too hard! It's not worth the effort!" Using a sewing machine is like learning to use any power tool to make props from fabrics instead of from wood and hardboard.

Really, $2.00 is beyond your budget.

Laflin sells pure silk 6" and 9" for $2.00.

http://www.laflinmagicstore.com/product-p/mssc9.htm

Of course like most people I have a fairly limited budget, so purchasing hand-hemmed real silk silks are beyond me (but thanks for the recommendations--I will definitely save those for future use). In fact, what I really need is some advice on selecting silks. I need inexpensive ones that work well, and some suggestions where I might find them.

But you can afford spending a $100 making your own, that does not make sense.

Look on line you can dye silk with permanent Magic Marker, they explain how on YouTube.

As stated, white silk can be purchased from Dharma found on the Internet.

Henry~!

I grew up with metal TTs, which might have been able to van. a FOUR INCH SILK!

Bobo and I were having a session at the '75 SAM convention, and, J.B. asked, "Have you seen THIS?" --He van'd a 12" 4 momme silk, using one of the (then) new Vernets. It looked GOOD! I used it.

When the extra long Vernets "came out", I used an 18" "half" silk, and, it looked even "gooder"! Even though I'm retired, I still use it, occasionally, when I want a "one minute" visual bit.

I had used the Burling Hull "Elusive Silk" (vanish) which I had learned from the late Roy Mayer, in the '40s. I remember doing "my" 20th Century Silk routine at a party at Magic Inc. back in the '70s. It knocked the socks off of the young lads at the party, who hadn't learned about books, yet! (I vanished the 18" Rice Rainbow silk, using a Vernet.) I wrote up the handling in my book. --I use the Elusive van. often, for walkarounds, when I don't want to "set" the 20C. My Elusive routine runs about 2 minutes, and, there is no "get ready". It definitely "involves" the group, and is immediately repeatable (walkarounds)!!

I'll PM you, later today.

Thanks guys for the help.

Actually, $2.00 silks are within my price range; $100 is not!

Dick, as always I love your stories.

HLT

Ahhh The elusive vanish… too bad all the new guys don’t read

Jay,

As one of the new guys who "don't read," I must say that I am intrigued.

Any clues, or do I have to earn it?

HLT

So at this time I remain clueless . . .

One thing I will say is I never intended to be dismissive or disrespectful of anyone. Throughout my life I have met many people who knew much more than I did; I respect experience and wisdom. As a "new guy" I have and unfortunately will make boneheaded mistakes. I even make those kind of mistakes in endeavors that I have undertaken for decades . . .

I really appreciate the help you all have given me. Bill, I especially thank you for recommending that website. I had intended to ask about sources for finished materials, but had not gotten around to it. Also, I am familiar with Dharma, although I have not "been there" in several years. As for Dick, you have been very helpful and kind since we first met, and I really appreciate it.

Now to add to the context of my original question--I belong to a medieval recreation group. I have written about this in my introductory post. Although I have always had an interest in magic (in its various forms), I did not have an inspirational experience as a child that would have "got me into" performing magic. My interest was generated in the context of the medieval recreation group (this is one of the "games" I referred to above)--I aspire to be a minstrel (I am a fairly decent musician), and in my research of medieval minstrels I became aware that performance magic was very common in the Middle Ages. And that is what brought me to the Café.

To further contextualize my question--I have always made things. As a kid I built model tanks, warships, and airplanes--over a hundred separate kits. But of course you have to have money to buy kits, and that is limited. Furthermore, especially with warships, there were numerous historic warships that were simply not available. So, using poster board I took scaled diagrams of these warships and built a fleet of more than 100 aircraft carriers, battleships, cruisers, destroyers, and submarines. The workmanship was not necessarily the greatest, but they still looked right.

For me the biggest attraction my medieval recreation hobby offers is that I get to make things that are really cool. I have worked with metal, leather, horn, bone, fabric, wood, food, and so on. I have made armor. I have woven fabric. I have gathered natural plant materials (black walnut nuts and leaves, lichen, onion skin) which I used to dye wool. I have also used madder which I bought over the internet. (By the way, the recipes and technique for dying wool is exactly the same as dying silks--they are both animal, not plant, fibers.) Again, my workmanship is not the greatest, but I know artisans who are master woodworkers, metal workers, glass workers, etc. Yes, I will not reveal any secrets to the uninitiated. My claim to fame is my needlework skills.

I have been sewing by hand and doing embroidery for over thirty years. So, making my own silks is not that far a reach for me. In fact, regardless of how many silks I purchase, making my own silks is a project I will undertake in the future. I have already designed and made several bags capable of transforming one object into another and disappearing object. I am currently working on one which involves the transformation of three objects. My inspiration was the vanishing bag found in the Mark Wilson text; I have come across the egg bag more recently, and my design is very different from it. For those of you who have read my parallel thread on boxes/props, I have been contemplating building boxes for about the past four years, although not with a lot of intensity. My interest stems from the discussion of the use of boxes for disappearances and transformations in Scot's Discoverie of Witchcraft. I am even interested in making my own TTs; I am currently contemplating how that may have been done in the Middle Ages.

Again, I want to thank everyone for their input. I truly appreciate it.

HLT

Hi! I can't remember the exact date, but, the TT was invented by a working magician, in, I believe the late 1800s. I can't even remember his name! I'll check with Jon Racherbaumer. BTW, the magician had a jeweler make it.

Refer to your post of 2/28m 5PM, above...No clues etc. It's in the book which ya just purchased.

"Elusive Silk Van." -page 319--323. The Sucker Essay -p 317--318. "20th Century Silk" -p 263--265=. Karrell Fox's "handling" of the Tarbell "Dissolving Knot" p285--287. "Fadeaway Double Knot" p357--359

That oughta keep ya reading for a day or three!

We're being "snowed on" (5"). I'll drive out to my storage facility (heehee, the barn on my sister's farm!)TOMORROW, to pick up a copy of "DA BOOK", and, check on my case of miscellaneous silks. Good chance that there will be a few used 18", 15", 12", and, maybe some scraps that will work for the decoy in the Elusive. They may not be the "right" colors, but, will give you something to "play" with!

Thanks Dick. I really look forward to it.

I hope by this Summer the snow will be gone.

Strangely, those of us in NW Arkansas haven't had any winter precipitation this season. But it seems like everyday people "up North" have another blizzard roll in!

Of course, in late March and early April we often get a little surprise.

HLT

I agree. A decent sewing machine can be had for about $100. There is not really a good substitute when sewing is needed. Some would go so far to say it is a basic survival skill.

I sew a fair amount, including tailoring my wife's trousers, but sewing 4 momme silk is just a little too fine a job for me on my machine!

Henry, I find your dedication to the SCA rather inspirational. And I mean that in a good way.

I don't think you will be able to document a TT prior to 1600, but if you wanted to try, I'd probably start with a carefully turned thimble. However, don't forget that there are other ways to vanish a silk! Want to see a really good example? Check out Charlie Caper. He does a vanish of a silk in a glass that is instantaneous and can be done with materials that are totally within the SCA period. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVd8B2aRAuk It isn't in Discoverie or in HPJ, but the materials did exist and the technique results in a great vanish, as you can see.

And it will really confound the guys out there who also have the Klutz book and a fake digit at home.

There really is no substitute for real silk when you need to compress a piece of cloth into a small space. But you could get away with cheap poly cotton with Caper's vanish.

-Patrick

Hey Patrick!

I 'yust' watched "that Swede" on the link you kindly provided above. He used fairly standard methods, with great skill, and, he "killed"!

What a delight to watch! FLIP would have loved the "stick"! --especially the delayed reproduction! JNeal did an instantaneous silk vanish from a transparent plastic cylinder, using a "slightly" different method, on the Johnny Carson Show, back in '85. It took me an hour to realize that I had the "necessary" in my prop case!

The routining was superb. Everything appeared to be "impromptu". How come we haven't heard of him? --at least I haven't heard of him!

And everyone thinks the Pull is dead.

Which is what makes the lamp chimney vanish so wonderful, Bill! Which is your point, of course. Who would expect such a low-tech method to actually work so wonderfully? Only anyone who has seen it in action. Charlie Caper is the only video I could think of demonstrating it, but I suspect others out there are doing it, too. My point was to remind Henry not to fall into a thinking trap that I myself often end up in. Namely, thinking that the method (TT) one learns for an effect (a silk vanishes) is the only way to do it.

The down side, of course, is reset. A variation like the Vernet holdout (invisible hand? can't remember for sure what it is called) lets you reproduce it as well. But at the expense of a more complicated pull and the need for a particular wardrobe choice.

I absolutely love Charlie Caper's cups and balls routine, as well. The bow tie!

-Patrick

I've never seen the "Vernet Holdout". (I'm retired since my last tour (2008)and I'm a bit out of the loop.

I remember reading in one of the magic magazines (eons ago) that some old vaudeville magician would do the lamp chimney, as he stood "in" the footlights. He would ask the orchestra leader to reach up and touch the chimney with his violin bow. "ZAP" the silk vanished!

In the early '50s, the "dime" stores sold a plastic "fruit bowl". Plastic stuff was fairly new, then. The bowl was made to look like a basket (holes). The "inventor" fastened two bowls together with a tape "hinge". A bunch of small silks (actually small pieces) protruded through the holes in the "basket". I think one could pull one or two 12"ers out. Then in a flash, the rest of the silks "went" (lamp shade gaff) I saw Harry Blackstone Sr. do it. It worked well, but, it seemed too "contrived" to me.