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Profile of SoyMilky
Joe Joe is a straight up shooter and his contribution to the magic community is not to be underestimated.

I am using his super spinner for my gigs now.
Mr. Woolery
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Profile of Mr. Woolery
Sorry to be late answering the questions put to me.

David Blaine and Chris Angel do have the skills and are certainly magicians. When they use SFX to achieve a false presentation of what we are supposed to believe was done live, in front of a real audience, they are not doing magic. That's when they turn into liars. And like Dougini, that's not the kind of magician I want to be.

I've enjoyed watching Zach for a couple of years now. Very good stuff. Not a magician, so not relevant. If he presented his videos as examples of things he can do in person, it would be germane to the discussion, but he doesn't so it isn't.

In terms of the magic world, I am indeed a nobody. Thank you so much for the belittling comment. However, is this meant to say that I don't have a right to an opinion about the matter? I am an amateur and not ashamed of it. My own experience is largely entertaining kids. In person. They would not stand for me showing them a video of a trick that I can't show them in person. That's not real magic.

Wizard of Oz summed up my feelings in a lot fewer words than I did: "What I think is the issue here are false representations of truth. The notion that a video is showing us real footage - accurately rendered - when in fact it is nothing of the sort. The performer is not only lying about what his or her audience witnessed, but also about what skills he or she actually possesses."

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Profile of jacobsw
On Mar 21, 2017, SoyMilky wrote:

Here is my issue with myself about this, so please let's have a conversation Mr.jacobsw.
Magic at its core IS deception isn't it ?
Who are we to get off saying where to draw the line ? Magic at its core IS deception, TV just allowed for an added layer of MASSIVE deception from re-editing, re-sequencing, re-film and include as though it was there all along to outright in your face LYING. Maybe...maybe this IS the next generation of magic and we are all acting like grumpy old man the same way grumpy old magicians complain when the first book on magic was released in the library...what do you think ?

I think the contract between a magician and an audience member is "The Magician will deceive the Audience, in order to temporarily challenge the Audience's beliefs about how reality works." As far as I'm concerned, that's the contract in full.

Obviously if somebody hypes their TV special as "No special effects! No edits! Exactly what you'd see in the audience!" then they are adding that promise to their contract with the audience. But if they don't say those words, then no form of deception is off the table.

Again, I don't LIKE unacknowledged video trickery. To me, it's like using stooges: iIt's unimpressive to me as a magician, and it's disappointing to me as an audience member when I learn that it was done. But it's not morally wrong.
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