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SilasJude New user Buffalo 97 Posts |
So, lets say you've read and practiced Corinda, Cassidy, Annemann, and the other core. You have read Scripting Magic and Absolute Magic. You've listened to Conversations with Mind Readers. Your theory at this point is golden. You feel you could lecture for an hour about the intricacies of "Your First 30 Seconds". Where do you go from here?
So many professionals will tell you about how they got interested in magic or mentalism, but rarely do they explicitly mention how they cut their teeth. I would love to hear how you all honed your skills as a psychic entertainer before you started advertising and seeking gigs. I have heard from a few sources that stand-up work can be ironed out at open-mic nights. If you've done this, how did you like it? Currently, I am developing a stand-up show, and trying to progress in the world of mix and mingle mentalism. I have been studying a lot of work by Looch, as well as toying with Cassidy's idea of simply bringing stand-up material to a close-up setting. Also! I love the support my friends and family give, but I have realized by this point that they are not the optimal crowd to take sample data from. Many thanks, Silas Jude |
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Cervier Inner circle France 1275 Posts |
Really, anything you do in front of "real" spectators (i.e. not your family nor your magician friends) is good! So read about what others did, but feel free do try something no one has told you about!
That said, your question was about how others started: - with my family and friends I know I just wrote they're not the best audience to learn from, but I would like to differentiate between two ways of performing material in front of them. The first one is the usual "Let me show you something..." --and that's when they're really not an audience whose reaction you can judge your performance by. But I've realized when I put up a show for them (for a birthday for example), then they're more like a "normal" audience, they act less as critics (they don't, in fact!) and more as any unknown spectators would. And they're more entertained and impressed - with strangers in impromptu situations. I do that whenever I can and feel like it. For instance, last week I was in a waiting room at the hospital, with half a dozen patients. Well, I stood up and tried a couple of routines I'm working on. This afternoon, I had half an hour to kill before an appointment. I walked into a bar for a coffee, and ended up doing a sort of "Name and place" routine for two ladies, and another routine I'm working on. - charities. My first one were with a man I met on a magic forum. He has been organizing charity shows for maybe ten years now and always welcomes volunteers. I did a couple with him, and a few more with other organizations. - my own first show. I asked a magician to join me, becauseI had done numbers but never a full show and thought I'd feel more confortable in a "team" adventure than on my own. We rented a large balroom and all the gear (lights, mics and stuff) for a very good price, my friend did his 45 mn show, I did my 45 mn show... We didn't make any money, but that got me hired by a cabaret, then by another one, ad noticed by the owner of a local radio... - I belong to a fencing club, they hold a party every year in june. So does the parish in my neighborhood. And a school I've taught in and keep links with. And of course, my own magic club has its annual show in may. Well, those are the general categories my performances fall into: planned, and not planned
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
The Lynx Deck, http://jmmaries.free.fr/cervier/ Grapheeteez, on GooglePlay Telemos the peek envelope, on SkywardMagic Telemos en Francais sur TheMysteryStore |
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
The only way to learn how to perform mentalism is to perform it. I made the decision to go pro in 1987...but I spent the next three years performing wherever I could. I did shopping malls and fundraisers and old folks homes. I performed at the drop of a hat in social gatherings. The idea: the more performing I could do, the better I would learn how to do it.
I noticed that a comedy club was doing an open mic night and I went to that as well. In those days they had a red light that was hooked to the club manager's finger. You got ten minutes...which is a REALLY long time when you're just learning. If, at any point, he felt you were bombing, the light would start to flash on and off. That meant you had one minute to turn it around. If you hadn't done so (in his opinion) at the end of that minute it went on and stayed on. If that happened you were expected to slink off the stage gathering whatever remained of your dignity around you. I was doing comedy magic in those days and I got red lighted three times. When I went back the fourth time and the light didn't flash I felt like I'd won an Oscar. If you can find a comedy club that still does this GO. There are no more brutally honest audiences than comedy club audiences. Failing that, simply perform everywhere with the goal of learning something EVERY time you do a show. Always ask for a letter of reference from places where you didn''t bomb and as you get closer to doing it for money, bring along a photographer so you'll have some marketing chops when you do go pro. Don't rush the process. You really can't. It's simply paying your dues and learning your art. Think of it as Performer's University...except you leave this one with training and prospects instead of a pile of debt. Watch other performers. Watch what they do well and what they do poorly. Watch street performers and respect their work because they can conjure crowds out of thin air. Personally I learned the most from the comics I worked with. Many of the guys who were coming up in the business at the same time I was are still my friends. So much of mentalism is about words and how you use them. Comics specialize in words and they have a lot to teach someone who will learn from watching them. Finally leave your ego at the door. It's supposed to be an ego shredding learning experience. Good luck. It''s a wild ride...great adventures ahead. I've been doing this for a living since 1990 and it has been splendid. Good luck, Skeeter. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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SilasJude New user Buffalo 97 Posts |
Cervier and David,
Thank you both for your responses. Reading your insight, I feel my largest downfall at this point is simply insecurity and self-consciousness. From you both, it seems the best fix is to put on your big-boy pants and find any and all opportunities to perform. On that point, what would you recommend as the best way to "break the ice" so to say in an impromptu setting. I want to distance myself from the "want to see something cool" because I know I've been that guy before, and I'd rather not be him again. -Cervier: In the impromptu settings you highlighted, how did you establish yourself to the "audience" without being intrusive? -David: I have been doing my best to acknowledge that this is like restarting college all over again and not expecting everything right away. I'm sure you can sympathize how easy it is to let yourself get frustrated because you're not Derren Cassidy or Ted Corinda yet Out of curiosity, how heavily do you recommend scripting material? Finally, I would call myself very comfortable on the stage/in the spotlight, except when it comes to mentalism. Do you have any tips to fein confidence to the audience that isn't truly there yet? |
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jonnyboy Inner circle San Diego 1021 Posts |
SilasJude, what I did is a little different. I approached the owner of a small theater dedicated to the magic arts, and suggested that he add an occasional show to the theater's lineup of shows.. This one would be a "New Magician Showcase". He and I found a couple of magicans to perform, along with me, in a small theater setting. We each performed twenty-minute sets. There was little pressure involved, because people who attended knew that this was a show for aspiring professionals, not necessarily for polished pros. With the three of us, we were able to fill the theater with family and friends, as well as some strangers buying tickets on the theater website. So for each of us, there was some comfort in having friends in the audience, but also some excitement because 2/3 of the audience were strangers. These shows went very well; and the theater owner then asked me to perform with him in a new, weekly show that was him performing a set of magic, and me performing mentalism. After a three-month run of successful shows, I started doing my own, solo mentalism shows at the theater on a weekly basis. In summary, I made a performing opportunity by creating a win-win for the theater owner and myself. He made money on the additional show, and I gained experience performing mentalism in a relatively secure environment and some exposure.
I believe this is something that could be used by others to create performing opportunities and getting mentalism experience. John |
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SilasJude New user Buffalo 97 Posts |
Jonnyboy,
That sounds like a prime situation to be in. What would you look for in a theater if you were to pursue this? I live in a medium sized city with a large metro area and absolutely no professional mentalists in sight. Its a double edged sword as we have no venues offering mystery entertainment much less dedicated to it, but also no competition to be seen. |
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Cervier Inner circle France 1275 Posts |
As usual, very good advice from David!
Quote:
-Cervier: In the impromptu settings you highlighted, how did you establish yourself to the "audience" without being intrusive? Well, first, IMO, mentalism isn't "something cool". I mean, IMHO, asking if they want to see somethning cool is like asking them if they want to see a trick. Even thought I also disagree that mentalism should always be presented (as often is by some) like an experiment (could sound like a boring lecture or a back-to-school experience...), what I set up my mind to show people is "a real phenomenon[/i]" (whether that phenomenon is NLP or telepathy is yours to decide). That's a first, important point: "what am I going to show them?" The, how do I approach them? Well, I must confess I find it very, very difficult to walk up to people I don't know and who don't expect me and start a conversation!!! On a stage, I'm home, I'm where I belong! ...But walking to strangers... it's hard! What I try to do is invite people to a conversation. The easiest way I've found is when I'm with a friend. I'll bring the topic of our conversation to the theme of the routine I want to practice, we'll talk just a bit louder so people around can hear what we say and, hopefully, get interested. Then I'll say to my frien "Do you want to try something?" and stand up to talk to people who have been listening (eavesdropping ). If I'm alone, I'll try to get someone interested in what I'm doing. For instance, last week in the waiting room, I was writing on a notebook and making noises like "Hummm", or "Ha!". Then I asked a man close to me if he would help me, that I was interested in psychology and wanted to try something I'd read about in a scientific magazine. I had picked this man because he wasn't alone, he was with his wife and it made it easy for me to add "add maybe madam could help us as well?". Id did a first routine and that got the rest of the room interested. The way I approached the two ladies at the bar yesterday was close to that. I had a satchel n my shoulder, was holding a notebook and a pencil, I walked to their table, apologized for interrupting and briefly explained I needed their help and five minutes of their time for my work. They accepted, I sat dow thanking them again and said I had an interest in psychology and needed to test something I'd read in a scientific magazine. One day, I had said I was a mentalist preparing a show and would they be so kind as to give me their thoughts? (pun not intended, doesn't work in French ). I realized it did get them interested, but not with the mindset of "normal" spectators waiting to be entertained, rather as critics. Helping and nice, but critics, hence not enjoyiing the routine in the same way. Quote:
-David: I have been doing my best to acknowledge that this is like restarting college all over again and not expecting everything right away. I'm sure you can sympathize how easy it is to let yourself get frustrated because you're not Derren Cassidy or Ted Corinda yet Out of curiosity, how heavily do you recommend scripting material? Finally, I would call myself very comfortable on the stage/in the spotlight, except when it comes to mentalism. Do you have any tips to fein confidence to the audience that isn't truly there yet? Sorry, I wanted to touch on that as well, even though it's David you asked, but I must run! I'll just drop in my 2 cents: script! Yes, do script, even if you are someone who improvises with ease (as I can), you can always wander a bit of your life-line (your script), but do have one! You don't want to run the risk of spoiling the pleasure of your audience because you (1) talked too long and maybe even lost sight of where you were going, (2) said something that sounded like a good idea but contradicted the structure of your routine or the logic of your theme.
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
The Lynx Deck, http://jmmaries.free.fr/cervier/ Grapheeteez, on GooglePlay Telemos the peek envelope, on SkywardMagic Telemos en Francais sur TheMysteryStore |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10604 Posts |
I agree with what David has said, comedy clubs, open mic nights, and stay away from family and friends, they will handicap you more than help you.
In today's marketplace another great option is the variety show. These are a great spot for mentalists as you can get a 7 minute segment or if you have a decent personality you could approach as an MC (Master of Ceremonies (think Hobson in The Illusionists) and have several short continuous spots to present your mentalism as you host and present the acts. Variety shows are popping up everywhere, especially in most tourist areas. If there isn't one in your area create or produce one, using a similar approach as johnnyboy has detailed. This is one of the best formats for getting stage time and progressing, I feel actually better than open mic nights which can come with their own, less than optimal performing conditions and pitfalls. |
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George Hunter Inner circle 2017 Posts |
You might not even want any family members or friends to be present when you are performing for an audience.
George |
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Cervier Inner circle France 1275 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 17, 2017, Mindpro wrote: Quote:
On Mar 17, 2017, George Hunter wrote: I wonder what makes you think that. For sure, I agree close ones are not the kind of audience one will learn the most from. I'll agree that presenting a routine in front of your (now bored) wife will maybe teach you about angles and such, but not about how to deal with "real" spectators. But as I wrote above, I don't have a problem performing for my family or for friends, when for instance I offer them a show for a special occasion. I do want to say it's by performing in front of strangers that I got better and can now better entertain my friends. Had I only performed for friends, I bet my learning --if any-- would have been much longer. And the fact I'm an amateur and don't have to make a living out of my art gives me a different POV. So my question to you would be: I agree one won't learn much from performing for friends and family, but I wonder what makes you say it's even something to be avoided?
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
The Lynx Deck, http://jmmaries.free.fr/cervier/ Grapheeteez, on GooglePlay Telemos the peek envelope, on SkywardMagic Telemos en Francais sur TheMysteryStore |
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MagicalEducator Veteran user 369 Posts |
"Performing" for friends and family will give you some kind of flight time but the responses/interactions may not be atypical to a real audience. Since your family/friends know you it will also make it more difficult for you to perform mentalism v. mental magic. Not sure if that's what your after as p/t amateur performer as we don't know what your goals are. Finally, feedback from family/friends can be very problematic as you don't know for sure if that's what they really think. They may be just trying not to hurt your feelings.
Voted "Canada's Most Inspirational Magician"
www.MagicalEducator.com Check out my column "Magic is Education" in Vanish Magazine |
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Cervier Inner circle France 1275 Posts |
I thought again about this as I was driving to work, and I would say, with caution, that I even think performing for people who know you can be beneficial. In some settings and regarding specific skills, but still.
Here's what makes me believe that: I rememberone of the first occasions I performed mentalism as mentalism for my family. They had seen me begin magic, they had seen me shift towards a different kind of tricks, and one day I decided to perfom "mental magic as if it were real". I especially remember two things from that night: - the mindset I was in. I knew they didn't believe I had special reading skills, let alone special supernatural powers! Yet I had decided to pretend anyway and act "as if". - my sister freaked out when I told her the card she was thinking about! I was doing a sort of Tossed Out Deck routine and had read the minds of 4 to 5 people. She later told me that when I had come close to her and told her to concentrate, she had done her best to empty her mind and not let me in! She's a university graduate, a teacher, and in many ways brighter than I am. So I would say that when *i* (may be different for other persons) perform in front of *my* family (whose attitude might differ from others') I concentrate on my acting "as if it were real" in difficult circumstances (i.e. in front of people who've known me since befaore I could even speak). So it doesn't teach me how to deal with difficult spectators, nor how to read strangers at a glance (to spot a "good" participant for instance), but it does help ME practice my convincingly lying to people who know I'm lying So, again, not the audience you want to build your experience on, but still not one *I* would avoid. IMHO and IMH personal experience with my own family and my own friends. Maybe yours are not like mine?
"A friend is someone who know you well but loves you anyway" H. Lauwick
The Lynx Deck, http://jmmaries.free.fr/cervier/ Grapheeteez, on GooglePlay Telemos the peek envelope, on SkywardMagic Telemos en Francais sur TheMysteryStore |
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
The process of generating scripts is different for everyone. For me it is very much a process in motion. I start by examining the prop and trying to imagine what else it could be...what else it could be used for. Then I begin working with it...presenting it to no one in the quiet safety of my work room. I jot down ideas and phrases I like...and I continue working it, playing the part of performer and volunteer.
When I have hammered out an idea, I will try it in my non pro shows...the opportunities that arise when what I do for a living pops up in casual conversation. Almost invariably someone asks to see "something." So I will try the 'new' thing along with one or two other tried and true effects like a Cente* Tear, for example. This provides valuable information on how the effect is going to change when it is presented to real people. At this point, the effect is done in point form. As I see how it's evolving when presented to real people (NOT family members...because, while their hearts are in the right place the feedback they give isn't usually helpful) I will begin writing a script on my computer. I include all notes on handling as well as what I say and keep it as complete as possible. That way if I set it aside for a while to work on something new, I can easily come back to it without having to start all over. And from there the routine just evolves. I travel with a notebook and something is said in the performance of an effect that is good, I write it down and figure out how to work it into the script. My stage show hasn't changed significantly in nearly three years. But the routines within it are in a constant state of flux...sometimes the changes are tiny...but they are always changing. You might want to consider applying for membership at the Mind Gems Brain Trust -- a site designed for helping mentalists do what they do better. There is a forum (included in the membership fees of ten dollars for the whole first year) where Richard Osterlind, Lee Earle and many more mentors show up to deal with questions on everything from routining effects to business questions. The amount of experience you have isn't important. What IS important is your attitude and a desire to learn. Hopefully this is helpful. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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MagicalEducator Veteran user 369 Posts |
I like to start with a presentational frame for why I'm presenting the piece. Is it about luck, coincidence or? Sometimes a routine will come out of a good opening line I've come up with. From here a whole series of trial and error occurs in a rather non-linear fashion. I do readings, research and study the concept or idea I'm trying to communicate. The Café is often an excellent resource for this stage although it often leads me to Paypal! LOL
I also like to consider what Eric Mead describes in his book Tangled Web the question of "What is the desired effect?" In his book he talks about our audiences going away and with what? What do we want them to think, feel or experience? He argues that without having a desired effect that we have no way of knowing the success or failure of our work. He describes it like playing a game of darts but without any board. If we don't have a target or goal then how do we know if we've been successful? Everything that we decide for our performances pieces either add to or take away from our desired effect. A final thought of course is that there are other theatrical goals beyond applause and laughter. Perhaps we want stunned silence or some other strong emotional response. These are a few things that I find myself reflecting upon when I create a new performance piece. I like to bring it further along to a working script. With script in hand I can try some of my lines. I can experiment with different wording, where to put the pauses and how to create a moment of wonder. jeff
Voted "Canada's Most Inspirational Magician"
www.MagicalEducator.com Check out my column "Magic is Education" in Vanish Magazine |
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4697 Posts |
Another venue to consider is doing street performing. It may be a little tricky trying to do mentalism on the streets, but there's nothing like being able to rehearse a 10-minute routine dozens of times during a day, getting instantaneous feedback. If you can keep peoples' interest for 10-minutes, then you know you're onto something. If they tip you, that's even better! Plus you get to work out all the kinks of a routine, and if you mess up, there's another audience available in just a few minutes.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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Oscar999 Elite user 401 Posts |
Taking a page from Jamie D. Grant, I've fallen into a Magic Friday situation at my corporate job. Every Friday I bring something (one trick) in to show everybody. It's fun for me - I get plenty of flight time in front of a pretty enthusiastic and sophisticated crowd of corporate types. Limiting it to one day a week keeps me from wearing out my welcome and I've gotten very positive feedback. They come to me every Friday now and ask for their Magic Friday Magic Show ... it's pretty cool. If you have a typical 9-5 job I highly recommend setting up something like that. If nothing else, it'll force you to expand your repertoire and keep you practicing all week.
Oscar |
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Jay Jennings Veteran user Scottsdale, AZ 331 Posts |
I'm "cutting my teeth" at an open-mic night tomorrow at a local coffee shop. While I'm not new to performing, my last real show was somewhere around 30 years ago,if I remember correctly. And it wasn't mentalism. So yes, I'm a little freaked out. Just a tad.
Jay
Mystery arts articles and thoughts: https://ExclusiveMagic.com
Free video crash course for numerology readings: https://LoShuNumerology.com |
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Dr. JK Inner circle Sandusky, OH 1191 Posts |
How did it go, Jay? I'm sure you knocked it out of the park! The OP may benefit from hearing about your experience.
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Jay Jennings Veteran user Scottsdale, AZ 331 Posts |
Quote:
On Mar 25, 2017, Dr. JK wrote: This open mic night is new for this coffee shop, and I'm not sure why they did it, but they pushed starting it back a week. So I have until next Friday night. Of course, the procrastinator in me said "yay!" but the part of me that knows I need to get out of my comfort zone to get better is disappointed. I'll make sure to update here after it happens. Thanks for asking. Jay
Mystery arts articles and thoughts: https://ExclusiveMagic.com
Free video crash course for numerology readings: https://LoShuNumerology.com |
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Gaaargh New user 39 Posts |
I teach at a college, and though I don't perform shows, I do cold reading from time to time during classes. I see the same students over 4 semesters, so I get to know them a bit, and doing some during 1st week introductions helps get a great rapport off the start.
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