Yes and I could listen to Jim Rohn all day.

I always liked Zig Ziglar too. We sort of grew up together and I could relate to all his references to his way of life here in the south. Not only was Zig a great speaker he was a great man and he walked the talk.

But as far as keeping it simple, for me it is hard to beat Earl Nightingale. His ‘The Strangest Secret’ talk is a life changer.

Tom

I was thinking of my last session with Mindoro and some of the things we discussed. One was a strategy of using YouTube I was pursuing. Mindoro listened and then challenged me to consider traditional methods of press and media because they still have more value to achieve the goal I am trying to reach. It caused me to rethink my approach and priorities. Not necessarily abandon what I was doing, but just rebalance the equation. He also viewed one of my performances and shared a performance piece that he believed did not fit well were I had placed it. In truth, I had kept it at the end of my performance because that is where it was when I performed with my brother. My show has changed since then and it now was a total misfit. I listened to Mindoro and was able to place it (with a few minor alterations) in a different part of my show that now fits and gets great reactions.

I share this to offer some specific ways that working with my coach has helped my business and performance. I also get valuable advice from friends and family as well as faculty at my school. The difference between them and Mindoro is that they do not understand my business model and ambitions, so they offer advice that takes my business in a direction they perceive to be the desired direction. One specific example of this is when they give advice that is offered so that I can build my birthday show bookings. I then usually explain that it is not my plan, but that is difficult for them to get past because that is their image of what children performers do. They do not have experience to draw upon, so advice is quite limited.

This made me wonder about those who work without a coach. Do you have someone you can talk to with regularity that is knowledgeable in your pursuit, has the necessary background, and is willing to challenge your methodology? If so, how frequently do you correspond with them?

Yes I have a couple people who meet those qualifications. I correspond as frequently as I want to with them... they are a text or a call away and they don't send me a bill.

When I coach and help people, my goal is to help them be the best that they can be but to set any artificial benchmark would be impossible. There have been many that I have specifically dissuaded if their "goals" were unrealistic. Pure "talent" is innate. My goal as a producer was to find those exceptionally talented people and encourage them to be their best through any means necessary. They have gone on to perform around the globe.

Thanks for your response. Would you be willing to share a bit more about yourself? For example how long you have been performing? Full time? Also, how diverse are your entertainment income streams and how close are you to ariving at the point you hope to reach? I think these can all influence the need or desire for input from others, especially in a formal manner. It would also be interesting to know the background of those you gain the most benefit from contacting. Is it similiar to your own? If not, to what degree is it different? Different target audience? Different market? Different form of entertainment? Different industry? (This is not just a question to thomasR, but really any who care to share how who they look to for the most reliable advice.

Ray- I agree with your perspectives. Out of curiosity, have you worked mostly with stage performers? I know you have a wealth of knowlege on all elements of stage production and performing, but I wonder how diverse the pursuits of those you work with are?

I've worked full time in live entertainment since 2005. I work full time as a lighting designer for a national touring band. I also own a company that produces circus and variety entertainment for small theaters, city festivals, and small business events. The Circus Company I started in 2007. Magic has been more of a hobby lately, but I performed for birthday parties and small town festivals and fundraisers in middle school and high school. And in recent years I'll take a arts festival or county fair gig if it's a weekend I'll be in town.

As far as "Arriving at the point you hope to reach" - I'm way beyond the point I hoped to reach. But I still have lots of ideas up my sleeve... which is why I'm always wanting to learn the marketing and business side of entertainment and see what works and what doesn't.

Everyone in my contacts is in the live entertainment industry. All different audiences and markets. Could be a video tech, a production manager, tour manager, or owner of an illusion show. I also have a few contacts at Disney Parks including a former imagineer. All of these are contacts that I will use to bounce various ideas off of.

Thanks for the details. it looks like you have wide access to experienced individuals in a wide variety of things. That impacts ones perceived need for a formal coach. You also have years of experience yourself, to draw upon.
My situation is very different. I have little experience and few in my social circles with extensive expertise. I am looking to overcome those deficiencies while building my network. Beginning with a more formal foundation will hopefully serve me well. I like the fact that I am working with someone who has written materials to assist in my learning and provides framework. We can not only speak to my projects, but his as well. He recently shared a large event he was managing and the behind the scenes workings. I was able to view promotional videos, websites, sponsorships, use of press articles and media footage. We spoke at length and in great detail on each aspect and how they came together. These are things that are directly applicable to my ambitions. Some things I can implement immediately, some will become necessary when I am ready for it. One specific thing I will share that I learned from our last session is how to use current events to my advantage with respect to press and media coverage, and how I can find creative ways to become a part of the story, but not necessarily the focal point.

Checkers... Not to be argumentative at all but why do you feel you need all this coaching and schooling? You are in college for business AND being coached by Mindpro? With your performing experiecne you should be able to get out there and make it happen pretty quickly. Naturally you want to build a business, but that happens naturally over time... You learn as you grow.

I feel like you may be wasting time planning your business, when you could be growing your business.

one problem I can see with coaches (and I'm not accusing Mindpro or anyone else of this...) is that it's in their best interest to keep their clients in a "growing" phase.

Lou is a coach (My understanding from those who post here after taking his sessions a good one.) and speaks very highly of going to coaching sessions with others.

What works for one might not be the path for all.

I have never gone to coaching and never would. But again it is what makes things great that there are options.

Agreed Danny. I actually can see the value of a coach at certain points in a career.

thomasR- First, I don't take it as argumentative. I began this thread to get opinions on what people in our industry thought of coaching, if they were using it and if not, what they did to advance themselves. Without differing opinions, it is a pretty boring discussion.

The reason I feel a need for coaching and schooling is to increase the likelihood that I will be successful in creating a business that supports my desired lifestyle ( which may differ greatly from others). I believe a disciplined approach will provide me with a competitive advantage. There are fundamental foundational aspects to any endeavor. Additionally, I am realizing that the more one invests in themselves, the more others are willing to assist and likewise invest in.

You say that with my performing experience I should be able to "get out there and make it happen pretty quickly". That depends on what one defines "it" as. Like you, I already way surpassed my initial ambitions. I began this business with my brother prior to entering high school. Our initial intention was to make a few bucks and gain work experience. Nothing more. We were very fortunate to have access to TMC and the associated talent pool. My brother invested time to participate and learn every aspect of our business, We had no intention of creating a lively hood. Even as we began making significant money, it was now paying for our education and such, but the business was not intended to support either of our long term desired life styles. My brother moved on a few years ago to pursue other endeavors, while still performing occasionally and assisting me when possible. When I made the decision to pursue the entertainment industry as my occupation, I decided to invest in knowledge that would allow me to propel the business beyond the current trajectory. I needed to acquire knowledge and expertise that I lack.

You say "I feel like you may be wasting time planning your business, when you could be growing your business." I do not view it that way at all. I perceive it to be experiential learning. There is nothing more gratifying to me than to implement something (like a significant fee increase or pricing structure) and have clients respond in a positive way. Without guidance, I would not have such confidence that I would get such a change correct. Getting those things wrong has serious consequences with an established business in an area I plan on serving for many years. Getting it right, gives me motivation to work even harder to reach new possibilities. This is just one rather simplified example on one aspect of business growth. In order to expand beyond just performing as a source of income, I need to understand how to develop an entertainment business that offers additional income potential.

Of course there are examples of those who have achieved all this and more with no formal education or coaching. As discussed here and in other threads, success has many variables. Many are beyond our control. That is why some who "make it" underestimate the difficulty in others following in their footsteps. Each individual comes with their talent level, at their time, in their location, with their choice in life style. My hope is to simply better control the aspects that I can.

I've been watching and following this thread, and it's interesting to see others perspective on this. Once again, people tend to only see it as it applies to them and not as intended in a greater sense. Many are simply not getting it or truly trying to understand what Cafécheckers has been sharing and hoping to get others thoughts on, although some good exchanges have occurred so hopefully someone has benefited.

I think many are not understanding it because, at least in my case with my coaching, there are many, many levels to it, while others try to simplify or minimize it to only a mono-focused or purposed benefit.

The truth is the vast majority of my coaching is content not available anywhere else. Then on top of that with the many levels that exist is is literally like receiving an MBA in entertainment business (many regularly tell me this over and over again.) It can literally be the msot eye-opening, life changing experience for most. The problem is you don't know what you don't know, so unless you are really trying you will not get even close to a full comprehension and understanding of it. Even what Caféchecker has posted, is only being read at its simplest and minimalistic level, not as intended.

What thomasR has described above is similar to what many do, the problem is each of those pros that he turns to can only offer their own personal knowledge and experience and not anything beyond what they know from their own perspective. While this can be helpful and beneficial, and even more so when you have 5-10 of these people each with a different area of specialty, it just is not the same as what Cafécheckers is referring to from a greater all encompassing industry perspective and education. While my personal insights and experience can come into our coaching conversations, most of it is not based on my personal experiences, but rather the greater understanding of the entire industry and proper industry operations. This encompasses a lot.

As Cafécheckers pointed out in an above post, when he shares with others that he is a kids entertainer, everyone almost always creates their own perception of what that is or means (to them) which usually is kids birthday parties) yet is nowhere near what Cafécheckers is referring to (nothing to do with kids parties) and it then immediately becomes beyond their comprehension so obviously they can't offer anything beneficial to him in terms of input, experience, knowledge or anything, other than uninformed, uneducated opinion, which is exactly not what he's looking for.

thomasR's qoute and question of "Checkers... Not to be argumentative at all but why do you feel you need all this coaching and schooling? You are in college for business AND being coached by Mindpro?" is a great example of this. All of his schooling, all of his college for business DOES NOT include anything close to what I am teaching/coaching, not even close. Sure it may offer some of the basics and standard steps of conventional business (which much of which he can quickly see doesn't or can't apply to entertainment business), and his entrepreneurial education has essentially prepared him for the Mindpro coaching content, which has been very helpful, but I assure you it is the coaching content that has progressed him, will help him with his plan and obtain his goals in the most direct way attainable in entertainment. His current education is a great addition and enhancement or supplement to what I am offering. It is this that has allowed him the great amount of progress (forward progression), evolvement of the show, production, business and of course as he mentioned confidence (the most basic of what you get from my coaching, that is a given) and the greater value and prices he has obtained in such a short period of time. I'm betting he has more that paid for any coaching education he spent and is already seeing profits and results - any we've just begun with the foundational elements (which is so important yet 95% of performers don't do/have or have wrong!)

Now don't get me wrong or misread what I'm saying, it is not all just me, Cafécheckers puts in the time and the work necessary to make all of this possible. I'd say what we've accomplished in just several months would take the typical performer 3-5 year BEGIN to start to get to. Look at them, they were doing this for 6 years I believe, yet some of the greatest advances, strides and progress were in the last few months of working together. Also if I was to lay out everything we have worked on and accomplished all together in these few short months and compared it to conventional business and education you would be amazed. And he is just in my basic coaching program!

So the point is in spite of Cafécheckrs brave efforts of putting himself and all of this out there, it is still not being understood, but rather beneficial to focus on the strides he has made, how it has changed and impacted him and his business, his business plan, forward movement and progress, and overall defined what we is seeking to accomplish and how it is happening so succinctly, effectively and efficiently. It is amazing to me that some here are going to such levels to truly to find fault, flaws or more, rather than see the points and curiosity being illustrated.

As for coaching "is that it's in their best interest to keep their clients in a "growing" phase" I can only speak personally here, but I have students that have been with me 5, 8 and 10 years, as I go that "deep" into entertainment business. I have ten different coaching programs and levels available, most beyond the basic coaching level most newbies, beginners or part-time or newer full-time performers start with. As much as they learn and as fast as they see results, progress and evolve, most always want to continue to the next level. As performers and entertainment business owners it is always a continual growing process, but what I am referring to is advanced levels far beyond the understanding of most performers. This is where income and opportunities compound into an entirely different level for most performers and entertainment business professionals.

Super interesting. I may need to read this one a second time.

You go that "deep?"

10 years? Dude. People can get a Bachelor's, Master's and PhD in less time than that.

You claim to go that "deep," and yet you have no publicly verifiable credentials other than a late 1990s version website.

Help us out here. What depth can you possibly have that takes longer than a PhD program to learn but no verifiable means of measuring said depth?

Yes, I go that deep!

Dude? What kind of "professional" performer or speaker talks like that?

Once again Robert you are talking about something you know nothing about and are speaking only from your own limited and jaded bold opinions not fact. You don't care to accept the facts when I and others have offered them to you.

The "publicly verifiable credentials" seems to be your own personal hangup and agenda. No need to "help you out here" most are well aware of the knowledge I have shared here over the years, which is only the very tip of the iceberg that I choose to share publicly. What depth? That's why they join in the coaching, to learn and find out. Most realize there is much they don't know, you seem to not get this. Again, it is more than just what many think of as "coaching" it is, much more, many layers and levels beyond just coaching and such valuable content and commitment from myself and beneficial value to their business that many decide they want to retain it in their business and operations long-term, several permanently.

And as far as "publicly verifiable credentials" what do you mean, online? What you can't find any "publicly verifiable credentials" when you search the internet? Of course not. Same for my offerings and performances, you will not find them online either because they are not for public consumption.

Also you are wrong again about one website from the 1990's (which the one you are referring to was not even mine) - again uninformed opinion, not fact (be careful to who you listen to). The fact is I have over 20 websites for all of my businesses - fact. But, no you will not find them in search results, no SEO, no social media.

Yes, my sessions are only once a week, some twice a week for those aggressively taking multiple trainings/coaching programs, yet I assure you students get much faster results than many typical Bachelor's, Master's and PhD. Stop worrying about my business as it doesn't pertain to you as you choose not to understand it when I and others offer such information. This whole thread is packed with information and explanations of which you seem to challenge everyone who has addressed this.

First some of you complain no one (of my students/clients) have come here to speak factually about my coaching and trainings, then when one does you challenge and find fault with that too.

You popping in only to offer opinions, flame and take shots is quite obvious to everyone here.

It is really odd that you are "coaching" performers on marketing and yet do not market yourself in SEO and social media. The fact that you don't seem to understand why some of us question that is even MORE odd in my opinion. But that's not what this thread is about.

I personally think Checkers can get value from your coaching... that wasn't what my posts were about. It was just questioning the focus on "business planning" vs. "business building."

Yes, I understand your questioning. I think many just are in such a hurry to "do", they do so aimlessly. By including the proper type of planning on the foundational elements it makes everything much more clear and succinct and ultimately makes what we're doing together more productive and beneficial. Plus working with so many performers allows me to see some very common perceptions and generalities that most here don't experience. This is also true of my agencies as they allow me to book many types of performers in many types of markets, with many types of clients, on many levels, much of which again most performers can never experience.

I can't tell you how many (I'd say over 80%) come to me and right off the bat say "I don't know what to do" or "I don't really know what I'm doing" or "I think I must be doing something wrong" or similar. There is not education or curriculum on someone wanting to become a entertainer, it is simply each man or woman for themselves. The mistake many make is they ask others what they do. As both checkers brothers have so eloquently pointed out here in this very forum, that can very limiting and hurting most performers more than helping them. As each performer has their own interest, foundation (many extremely flimsy created by default), perceptions, markets and sooo many other variables. What I coach works across the board for all types of performers, on all levels in all markets and also for all types of entertainment businesses from bounce house/inflatable businesses, to face-painting, to games and amusements, to the hundreds of Santa's and many types of entertainment businesses in between that I have coached and trained worldwide. It is this formal education so many are missing and ultimately needing.

You earlier said "With your performing experience you should be able to get out there and make it happen pretty quickly... You learn as you grow."

I find it hard to really understand this as performers that "just go out and do it" tend to just simply continue to repeat and do more of what they are currently doing. It is all they know. It is what they THINK they should be doing. They know nothing else. There is no way for them to possibly know what else there is or what else is to come or that they could be doing. That is a benefit to working with someone who can offer such insight AND allow it to happen more directly and often quicker.

Also there is an assumption that he could figure it our himself. This is often not close to true. They would continue to do what they THINK is what to do, but as I have often pointed out here most of what performers think is one way is often really another, what a performer thinks others think of their show is not what others actually think of their shows, what they think is the path to achieve what they think they want is often quickly realized it is not and once the true reality is realized it opens the floodgates, which these types of things they likely wouldn't realize on their own, even if they did learn a small portion of it it could take years, if at all. Most performer's frustrations, lack of achievement or being where they want to be often isn't because they don't put in the work but rather they are working on the wrong stuff from the wrong perspective. I assist them with this, show them the realities, prove these realities are not just my opinion what actually exists, and then present all of this from the industry perspective which is the most important element. When one only operates form their own beliefs, perceptions and opinions, which are based on nothing but themselves, how can they actually possibly compete in the industry as a true professional? Once they choose to operate as and true industry professional from an industry perspective, they start seeing and experiencing the real elements of what we do and realize how far off their own limited, uninformed and often uneducated beliefs were and that they were exactly what was holding them back.

I see it here from several members that blantantly fail to realize THEY are in their own way of achievement, progression and success.

I'm not sure why you think I coach anyone on marketing? Who says I coach anyone on marketing? Again I think that is some's own perception. I have always said most performers seriously believe their lack of bookings and progress is due to a lack of marketing. They falsely equate to marketing or lack of/bad/not enough marketing to lack of bookings. In my coaching I prove time and time again, that simply isn't true and again is a misperception. As I have said, I could go to any town in America and help a performer get 8, 10, 12 or more bookings. They'll do the shows and be back exactly where they were before I got them those bookings. It is not a marketing problem, it is a business operational problem. One of my business as an experiment we stopped all marketing (100%) over 20 years ago and it had still continued to doubled business for the first 5 years until we had to forcibly cut off business. No marketing at all because the business model didn't require it. So sure, I'll assist on marketing if someone asks about it, but only if the other elements are clearly in place first and they are TRULY ready to market.

I understand completely why you and some others of you question why I don't market with SEO, online or social media. It is even MORE odd in my opinion that this is such a misperception that all performers must do this. Again with more assumptions. This is a false assumption that simply isn't true. Ask Cafécheckers if he has done any additional or new marketing since working with me to or if he had spend any more marketing dollars, or to do anything additional to raise his price and offerings to likely more than double his price/profitability. The answer would be no, he didn't have to do any new or different/additional marketing at all.

In my business model there is no place or benefit for these. Again, performers seem to think only as things seems or appear to them, without taking the time to learn or become educated about other ways. I understand completely it is because most here are not looking at anything more that the typical "default" performer's approach. This too is quite limiting and I am constantly amazed that more do not wish to pursue this more.

Some very good points. I do agree that many want to "do" instead of plan and educate. I'm all for planning and education... I just think we may disagree slightly on the importance of having a coach vs. other forms of educating oneself in the entertainment industry. What I think we do agree on is that the entertainment industry is VERY unique.

When you say "there is an assumption that he could figure it out for himself" - I think #1. Yes it's possible that he could. All depends on his mindset and partly his market. It's not exactly rocket science and as long as you listen to your clients and watch others in your market there are a lot of things that you can learn yourself. It may take a bit longer... but it's certainly possible.

#2. There are many resources available. Podcasts, Business Courses, Business Books, and yes you can contact and network with various professionals.

Again... I'm not here to try to talk Checkers out of coaching with you... (I would try to talk him out of the college classes but that's another story...) as I think a good coach can certainly give someone a jump start in building and / or expanding their business.


Now when you say... "I'm not sure why you think I coach anyone on marketing? Who says I coach anyone on marketing?"
First... I would hope that your coaching includes marketing? Also... Checkers mentioned how you critiqued his youtube strategy and to consider traditional press and media. That's marketing by most peoples definition.

Would you care to share (possibly in a new thread) why you don't market with SEO and how it benefits you? I do have some ideas of how that could be a positive, and would be interested in knowing which markets this benefits and why.

"Hundreds of Santa's"? Dude- there's only one. Now I know your lying.

Dude? What kind of "doctor" talks like that? Lol!

Sorry, that d*@n predictive text, I meant to say hundreds of "Santa's helpers". Phew, that was a close one!