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charliecheckers
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On Sep 12, 2017, cbguy wrote:
...and since I mentioned the subject of help. I can count the people who have been helpful over the years on one hand.
Here is a list:
1. Bob Brown
2. Celeste (Evans) Bryene
3. Jimmy Kryszac (I know I spelled his last name wrong, but he would just make a joke about it)
4. Don Driver
5. Robert Smith
One of the things I've learned from my failures is what to look for in someone that is trustworthy and truly helpful. Two key features that everyone on my list have in common is they all displayed humbleness and gratitude. I'm not saying anything negative about anyone who has contributed here. What I am saying is in Robert, I see the attributes that I also seen in the first four people on the list above. That instantly gets my respect and attention.

You have a very short list. Whose fault is that?
Mindpro
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Some good observations throughout this thread from charliecheckers I must say, especially in his findings of the current state of Tricky Business based on his recent research and reflection.

As far as the topic of this thread, you should really gain a true understanding of what coaching is and then must decide if it is for you or not. No, all coaches are not the same - in approach or in content, so finding the right coach for you is perhaps most important. It is really quite simple. However, thinking you know or can find all the answers yourself on your own, not to mention a structure, is quite limiting and perhaps even unrealistic for many looking for more immediate progress, direction or solutions without committing maybe a decade of time to try to figure it out on their own. And if you do, even then, you likely will not know as much as you may think you do. Just putting in the time does not give or assure you knowledge or the info you may be seeking.
cafecheckers
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In forming my decision to pursue entertainment full time upon graduating from school I had to take a hard look at the numbers. Looking at what it costs to own a home, car, invest in retirement, life insurance, disability insurance, healthcare, dental, children, food, clothing, cell phone, utilities, home insurance, auto insurance, tax bills, medical bills, pharmacy costs (and the list goes on) was intimidating and a reality check. I had to be honest with myself and say that unless I created a new approach, I would not likely be able to cover such expenses by just doing more of the same. I know there are many who have landed on the same space and chose to work another job full time and entertain part time. Still others choose to do without some of the items I listed or have another (ex: wife, husband) pay for them. For me, the right thing to do was conceptualize ways to grow diversly in a structured way and hire someone to offer assistance. The fact that I already knew who the right person was made the decision a whole lot easier.
Perhaps a broader question to ask here is: When an honest assesment of current business leaves one short of their needs or desires, what do they do to address it?
philraso
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On Sep 11, 2017, cbguy wrote:
I literally came into this thread hoping for the best and being prepared for the worst. I read through every line, which spans over 15 pages and what I discovered is this thread had "NO" real advice or anything helpful, what-so-ever. What it does have is a bunch of gloating and it reads like an extra long Dave Dee, sales letter...all fluff and no meat.


Made me laugh. I knew Dave before he was selling marketing magic. Love it when so many people post nothing around here.
Dannydoyle
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Like your last post for example?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
cafecheckers
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I am excited with my 2018 outlook, as so much of my business plan is unfolding. I spent significant time, money and effort in 2017 to redefine my show and business model. This was necessary when I made the commitment to myself to pursue an entertainment based business as my career late in 2016. At that time, I knew I would benefit from coaching from Mindpro for many reasons.

I have successfully created a detailed business plan to pave my way. Much of what I have worked on last year will become more visible this year as my business grows. Mindpro has been an integral part of the process, being extremely generous with his time, experience and wisdom. Reading the recent threads in Tricky Business brings out the many factors one has to consider for long term success. The advice one receives from others is so much more valuable when the person sharing it knows your strengths, weaknesses, personal desires and limitations, and of course financial and life goals. Perhaps above all else, I am excited with the relationship Mindpro and I have developed. I owe much of that to his kindness. I am fortunate that someone with such broad and deep knowledge has taken a genuine interest in my success. Those seeking coaching would be lucky to find such an individual.
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Yes, 2018 looks like it should be a fantastic year for many, including everyone I have been working with. What's amazing about Cafécheckers is he has taken his business in just this past 12 months to a point that the majority of other performers would take 3-5 years to get to once making their initial decision, and that's while still being a full-time student! While I can provide the experience, knowledge, insight, and guidance, it is the understanding, implementing and taking action that gets the results.
cafecheckers
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I just wanted to share a recent update and see if others who have been involved with coaching have perspectives to share as well.

I have been attending College in persuit of a degree in Entrepreneurship while simultaneously receiving coaching weekly from Mindpro. One of the interesting similarities between the two is that both offer broad knowledge. While my coaching with Mindpro is more specificity directed towards my business, his approach remains broad and deep.The more I work with him, the more I appreciate this aspect of his teachings. For example, we recently spoke at length about the closing of ToysRUs. The causes, the societal impact and what it might mean (and what one can learn) that applies to an entertainment business that is directed towards children. It was an amazing conversation. It leaves me rich in historical perspectives I would not otherwise have. While coming here to post an update and scrolling this page to get to the message box, I spotted this quote:

Quote:
On Sep 11, 2017, cbguy wrote:
I literally came into this thread hoping for the best and being prepared for the worst. I read through every line, which spans over 15 pages and what I discovered is this thread had "NO" real advice or anything helpful, what-so-ever. What it does have is a bunch of gloating and it reads like an extra long Dave Dee, sales letter...all fluff and no meat.


I think it reveals a difference in the perceived needs and expectations one has regarding their development. Some only want very specific information which will get them one step further. cbguy says this thread is “all fluff and no meat”. Perhaps if you came looking for a slice of deli meat - I would agree. If you are interested in a calf with desires of raising cattle for meat, you will see a great deal of value in this thread. The same is true for Coaching with Mindpro, except that he also provides plenty of “deli meat” while the calf matures.

I am now much more able to follow my business plan with proper priorities in a focused way. I have developed much better capabilities to self evaluate my current level of proficiency in every aspect of my business, including: booking processes, show creation and delivery, website purpose and development, and overall business model. It does feel like getting an advanced degree.

Much like obtaining an advanced degree in any endeavor, it is not necessary, desirable or practical for everyone. For me, it is a huge asset!

It would be great to hear from others who are newer to performing or entertaining to get different perspectives and understand what they are using to increase their knowledge.
thomasR
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I would be interested in how your coaching (both private and through college) has helped you in your real world business of performing.
cafecheckers
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Good question. I thought I provided some examples, but I will try to provide a more through answer this weekend.
cafecheckers
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My weekend was crazy busy and I want to adequately answer thomasR, so I will get to this no later than Wednesday.
cafecheckers
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While composing my post, I realized it would probably make more sense to share my thoughts via video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBue5RTUSgg&feature=youtu.be
I hope this better explains the benefits I am having through coaching.
thomasR
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First of all.. great video. Nicely produced, and you have great presentation / public speaking skills.

But... I'm still quite confused what the coaching has actually gotten you. Unless I missed something...

Branded Props. Was that mindpro's idea? Or he helped you get the props or encouraged you on the path? Certainly being unique in your market is good. Wheather I am getting a custom made prop, or purchasing one, I am always thinking about how it fits my brand and image. So yeah... good thinking.

Scholarship / Fellowship
I'm sorry but crediting Mindpro for these seems to be a huge stretch. Scholarships and business fellowships exist for people like you. Did mindpros letter help? Sure... but I'm pretty sure your past experiences (performances at the white house, etc.) would / did help just as much. Did you submit any other letters of recommendation as well?

Meeting with businesses as a result of fellowship.
Again... seems a far stretch to credit that directly to mindpro. And I'm not really sure what the end result is.. you met some business leaders in your area. Great.

Website Help
Mindpro helped you give critique to a web designer you paid $4,000? Ok. I would have totally expected Mindpro to recommend a web developer to you who already knows the business and then give you that information BEFORE you paid $4,000 and were unhappy. But yes... it's good that he helped you there.

Was there anything else? Are you currently performing? are you making more money than you were previously? are you getting more / better gigs? are you getting more repeat and referral customers?

I'm not doubting Mindpros knowledge... it's clear he does have some experience in the field. I'm also not doubting that mindpro has provided you with great resources. But the video didn't really answer my question "how has coaching helped you in your real world business of performing" It sounded like you got 1 day care gig from a meeting with a fellowship that you got into and included a reference letter from mindpro. Please.. I'm not meaning that as negative as it sounds.. I'm sure you are getting real value out of coaching.. but as I've said before, a coach has an incentive to keep you on a SLOW path to success so you will continue with his coaching.
thomasR
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Just a disclaimer that I do realize the video was more than just an answer to my question.

In general I'm jealous of how easily resources are available online... if I had all of this 11 years ago I think my business (which still exists) could have taken off differently, and more quickly.
While I had a mentor who helped me tremendously... he knew about ONE side of the entertainment business (music and music events) and that did not all directly apply to variety entertainment.
cafecheckers
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Just a quick response to ThomasR-

Thanks for responding.

I look at my evolvement as a compilation of many factors, that include talent, experience and education. It becomes impossible to attribute each specific advancement to one thing. You asked about both my education at college and coaching, so not everything I mentioned was focused on coaching.

I am up on bookings and prices and advancing in markets, but coaching is designed to create a broad base of structured foundation and a long term vision. The fellowship opportunities are likewise structured that way, so adding up what they are worth today is not my focus. I can only say I provided a few examples and have many others that are consistent with my vision. I could not go into great detail on each example regarding the length of time I spent with local business owners and the intimacy of my meetings was substantial. The show I booked at the daycare was not even a result of my meeting and my desired long term relationship with the daycare center has little to do with booking more shows there.

I will try to address other points down the road.
thomasR
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"coaching is designed to create a broad base of structured foundation and a long term vision" - I think this is what I have a problem with. In the video you say the reason for coaching is to speed everything up. Yet after 2 years of coaching when I ask for results you give me the 'long term vision" line. So which is it?

When do you plan on performing full time? when you graduate (is that this year??) or does your long term plan have you skipping over performing full time?

I also apologize if you feel I've derailed the thread from coaching to about you specifically. Not my intent.. you're just the obvious example to use. Smile
cafecheckers
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Quote:
On Mar 29, 2018, thomasR wrote:
First of all.. great video. Nicely produced, and you have great presentation / public speaking skills.

Thank you for the kind words. It was actually just hastily put together (crazy busy week) and I now realize I cut content that would have been relevant.

Quote:
But... I'm still quite confused what the coaching has actually gotten you. Unless I missed something...

Branded Props. Was that mindpro's idea? Or he helped you get the props or encouraged you on the path? Certainly being unique in your market is good. Wheather I am getting a custom made prop, or purchasing one, I am always thinking about how it fits my brand and image. So yeah... good thinking.

Yes, our discussions regarding the direction of my business moving away from what many perceive to be a standard magic show necessitated the move to customized props that move the audience away from such notions. Mindpro was instrumental in this way of thinking.

Quote:
Scholarship / Fellowship
I'm sorry but crediting Mindpro for these seems to be a huge stretch. Scholarships and business fellowships exist for people like you. Did mindpros letter help? Sure... but I'm pretty sure your past experiences (performances at the white house, etc.) would / did help just as much. Did you submit any other letters of recommendation as well?

This Fellowship opportunity was very competitive and an all or nothing proposition. While I never hired Mindpro for such purposes, I can tell you that it was when I received his nomination letter with impressive and professional letterhead -I said to myself “I’ve got this”. My brother is in Medical School. Did he really need to take SAT and MCAT prep classes? Did he really need to serve as a firefighter and undertake EMT certification classes? No one knows for sure, but attending the medical school of your choice is very competitive and an all or nothing proposition. Additionally, once you get into medical school or fellowship programs, these prepatory steps greatly help in getting the most out of such opportunities.

Quote:
Meeting with businesses as a result of fellowship.
Again... seems a far stretch to credit that directly to mindpro. And I'm not really sure what the end result is.. you met some business leaders in your area. Great.

Mindpro is in the mix, and we discuss optomizing such opportunities as well.

Quote:
Website Help
Mindpro helped you give critique to a web designer you paid $4,000? Ok. I would have totally expected Mindpro to recommend a web developer to you who already knows the business and then give you that information BEFORE you paid $4,000 and were unhappy. But yes... it's good that he helped you there.

Mindpro describes his coaching as one gaining an advanced degree. Conceptually, one enrolled in such a program would not expect the instructors to baby sit each and every step - it stunts growth, is too restrictive and outside of the scope of our arrangement. Coming to my rescue before I drown is awesome coaching. I have learned way more than I can get into here regarding this process.

Quote:
Was there anything else? Are you currently performing? are you making more money than you were previously? are you getting more / better gigs? are you getting more repeat and referral customers?

These are all good and legitimate questions. While I have nothing to hide, I don’t spend time speaking to these questions because I did not come here to promote Mindpro’s coaching and try to show others how it can help their business. I share what I get out of coaching in general and in particular, with Mindpro and invite others to share perspectives. While I ultimately intend to greatly increase all such numbers, I was seeking different and more far reaching goals. I evaluate my progress against those goals. They are perhaps softer to evaluate, but I am surpassing my expectations.

Quote:
I'm not doubting Mindpros knowledge... it's clear he does have some experience in the field. I'm also not doubting that mindpro has provided you with great resources. But the video didn't really answer my question "how has coaching helped you in your real world business of performing" It sounded like you got 1 day care gig from a meeting with a fellowship that you got into and included a reference letter from mindpro. Please.. I'm not meaning that as negative as it sounds.. I'm sure you are getting real value out of coaching.. but as I've said before, a coach has an incentive to keep you on a SLOW path to success so you will continue with his coaching.


Literally every aspect of my business and performance has grown. Perhaps Mindpro can better give specific examples, as it is often more clear to others who witness growth than the student.

One thing I want to share that was inadvertently cut from the video is that Mindpro is very unique with regard to his early family life, where he has lived and experiences across so many aspects of entertainment. The benefits of this in deference to other learning tools becomes very apparent through ongoing conversations.

I misspoke on video. My coaching relationship has actually been shy of a year and a half. I plan on performing full time beginning in June 2019. I have developed 1,3 and 5 year plans that hopefully work to keep me on track for my career vision.

I currently perform full time throughout the summer months and part time during other months. Further details of my progress will become more clear during the lead up to my being a full time performer.
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I knew exactly how this was going to go when thomasR asked the question of which Cafécheckers was responding.

This round of most recent posts and really this thread, in general, is an excellent example of both the tone of Tricky Business here these days, and more so the magic and entertainment communities in general from a performer's perspective (very limiting perspective.)

To begin with, thomasR seems to continually operate from a negative, I don't understand, "prove something to me" perspective. This is something I see in many performers. They simply can't allow themselves to see, accept or understand a greater picture. They can't see or accept a different business model from what is typical.

Even by the nature of "Doubting Thomas'" last few posts, I knew exactly how this would go. He is looking for a list of individual items that Checkers has learned or gained from personal coaching with me. The problem is then if there were provided, he would then start picking them apart one by one claiming that each of those could be attained on their own, without the need of paying for Mindpro as a coach.

The problem with this and really much of this thread is the context. He is reading and receiving this from his own questioning and doubting position, NOT the position of Cafécheckers or the purpose of this entire thread being introduced in the first place. So yes, operating from the questioning, doubtful position, there will likely be no satisfactory answers. This is clear by 17 pages of circumstances, situations, and examples which are not being accepted.

So let me make it a bit clearer for thomasR and any others having similar difficulties. To gain the most out of this discussion and the content being shared and offered by Cafécheckers, you really need to operate and understand from the proper perspective - that is the perspective of Cafécheckers previously and now more than ever's current position of believing 100%, without a doubt, that everything I state, claim and have or shared here is completely true and accurate. You must move beyond these personal doubts or lack of acceptance that everything I have ever stated, said or claimed here relating to my knowledge, experience and industry positions and status in emphatically, without a doubt, is 100% true. You must get over the fact that because you can't find it on Google that it somehow isn't real or doesn't exist. If anything, this is a great testiment to my system that you can't easily find it.

Everything - that I have said I have done, the experience I have stated, the levels of which I operate the businesses I have, the elements in entertainment business I have pioneered or created, things in the industry I have created, and the fact that much of what I offer (60-70%) and share in the coaching is not available anywhere else from anyone else. This becomes quite clear very quickly when I start working with someone (as well as how nice I am, lol). In a very short period of time, we go deeper into entertainment business that most that have had 60-year local performing careers never have even come close to. Again, not fluff or exaggerated claims but complete fact that is quickly realized and proven.

Only then, once 100% focus can be on my content will things even begin to be possible to move forward. Things happen quickly for most, depending on their current level and the initial work that needs to be done. For some this initial work can take a bit of time as much of it is the foundational aspects that absolutely must be in place - CORRECTLY- before even attempting to get to the progressive aspects of the coaching. For some, some if it may be in place, for others it may be going back and addressing each and every one of these components and starting over. This is one reason why newbies have a distinct advantage as there is less or nothing that needs to be undone or revisited, allowing progress to start almost immediately.

For some here that just can't accept these things, no answers will really suffice because they are not hearing them as intended, but rather applying them, as they wish, to their own unaccepting context, which of course can only possibly lead to only greater unacceptance and distorted reality that they have created for themselves - but not the true reality of the situation. One of the first things we do is learn to deal in 100% reality, not Google or other perceived/pseudo-realities.

This is prohibitive, restrictive and will assuredly hold others back from progress and only keep them as doubters and unaccepting of the change they likely need the most.

As I say, I don't expect these to be understood as intended by everyone, but for those that do seem to get it, here are some exact examples...

Performances have been revised and improved
Branding has been created
Bookings have increases
Pricing per bookings and therefore overall earnings have increased
The level of professionalism has greatly improved
Professionalism is understood and comprehended on many levels (50 different)
Proper business foundations have been created and understood
Performances are adapted or created based on the proper business foundations to compliment each other rather than work against each other)
They understand and master the 5 types of bookings
They understand how entertainment businesses are different from conventional businesses
They understand the rules of entertainment business
They understand the art and science of entertainment business
They have a complete and thorough understanding of their customers on a level most do performers not or ever will
They gain deep market knowledge from the inside
They have a business plan
They establish short, mid and longterm goals
They become media-friendly
They understand and incorporate press and media into their business on a consistent basis
They have a marketing plan
They have a promotional schedule
They learn a specific marketing system created and based on their specific markets and foundational elements
They become established authorities in their geographical markets, separating and positioning themselves form others
They become established and authorities in each of their performance markets
They become more than just "performers" or "entertainers"
They use their business to give back to special causes important to them
They see and create the greater picture for their business making it consistent, reliable and recession-proof

I will stop there with just those 25 things for the first 18 months. Again, this is just the basics and tip of the iceberg. There is soooo much more.

As far as pacing, I can not tell you how fast things progress, There is no "it is in the coach's best interest to have a slow path to success" as we move far to fast and cover far too much ground for anyone to ever make such non-realistic claims. They are trying to keep up with me. If anything slows it is at their request, not mine. My coaching is about education, progress, and results.

If anything I am guilty of is over-delivering. They pay for an hour a week, 50 weeks a year = 50 hours a year. For many our sessions go 1.5, 2, 2.5+ hours each time. Heck, just today one session went 3 hours and 20 minutes and both of us had to pry ourselves off of the phone. So not SLOW anything here. This is also the reason why earlier in this thread I said in the first 12-15 months Cafécheckers has attained what many other performers would take 3-5 years to achieve. It is because of both their commitment to progress and my willingness to share openly and overdeliver. I know that is probably the type of thing I am supposed to let others say about me, but the truth is the truth, fact is fact, and reality is what it is, regardless of who says it. I am not dealing in political correctness here, I am dealing is reality and someone's own personal success and expected results.

Goals will be met. If a client comes to me and says I'm currently in school for another 3 years and I'd like my business to be at a point where I can literally walk out of school into my own 6 figure income business, that is what we will make the reality. I will provide the information, knowledge and tools, and they provide the action to make it become reality. It will happen as that is the only acceptable goals. Of course, each student's goals are individual and each of their starting points will be different, but that is how we operate.

There is no time for such games, limiting mentalities. Over 96% of those that secure me for coaching ASK ME to continue working with them. Some are not in their 8th, 9th and 10th years. As Cafécehckers tries to explain, it is a much more broader thing than "just coaching" as most here are seeming to see this. For many of these people, it is like I can become a part of their business. Some view it as a partner without any financial stake, others look at it as their own personal entertainment business psychologist, and still, others look at it as a main part of their business just as much as their performance, original material, branding, marketing, and other crucial elements. Many look at me as a huge proprietary component to both their business and success.

Even for the guys that have been around for ten years, things continue to move quickly and new concepts, ideas, and strategies are introduced each week - literally.

You really do not understand when I say how deep we go and how much there is to entertainment business and how it is truly the commitment of my life efforts. I am committed to their success. They become attached to my name, so there is a mutual investment.

Again, I know most here may not understand, but it is important to understand that THIS is where Cafécheckers is coming from and trying to express in his posts, this thread and the video (which I would have never suggested, as most here know I am not a fan of video these days especially.)

Also for those that want to learn my entertainment business operational system as part of their training, they become blown away at the intricacies and beauty of how it all works together in a results-driven creation. No SEO, Lead Pages, autoresponders, AdWords, Pay-Per-Click, Click Funnels, launch formulas, social media, and the other tech and trendy guru resources. Sure, these can be added to the system or enhance certain areas, which I am happy to show then how to do/utilize, but we build and create a business on the foundation of clients, customers and relationships, not algorithms and tech.

Unfortunately, every one of the elements thomasR chose to offer his opinion on are terribly incorrect. Branded Props - that may be what you see, but, in reality, it is something waaay more in a bigger picture. Yes, I likely played what was a key or primary role in helping him get the scholarship (from what I understand and how we positioned it). What you see as "meeting with businesses" is also much more, you need to think along the lines of $100,000s in sponsorships and additional booking opportunities, high-profile visibility, and again, sooooo much more. Again a much deeper and greater picture - all done by a part-time performer (college student) in his first 16 months in working with me.

As for the website help and your perception - no I do not often recommend resources or make recommendations. If I am asked and I have something I would be willing to recommend or share, fine, but my clients/students know how I feel about recommendations. He came to me with his resources in mind through his own efforts of starting to create his own team. He asked me to checkout out and critique the work they had done. And in a matter of one session of ours, he learned more about websites that he could have ever imagined from me. In 18 minutes I offered him not just some changes but the complete outline with almost every crucial aspect included, including a sample mock-up of what the site should be (and this was all while I was at dinner between the time I ordered and the food arrived at the Golden Nugget steakhouse!) He took the information back to his web designers and they were blown away. Had this occurred first, it may have gone in a different direction, but I don't tell someone what to do or how to do it, I provide them with the knowledge and education to make their own decisions. I am not a coach teaching what I have done" or "how I did it" - no, that is how 99% of other "coaches" and "gurus" do it. That is not at all how my coaching works. I am not interested in making replicas of myself.
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"To begin with, thomasR seems to continually operate from a negative, I don't understand, "prove something to me" perspective."
"Doubting Thomas'"
"So let me make it a bit clearer for thomasR and any others having similar difficulties."

hmm... I thought the conversation was going nicely. I also thought it would be rude to not ask questions after Checkers went to so much trouble to give a long and detailed answer.
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It is going nicely, but I was just providing more of the specifics you seemed to be in search of. I may have referred to you as it was your post to which Cafécheckers was responding, as well as to me responding to your follow up questions. Didn't think it was bad or un-nicely, just trying to speak a bit more frank and honest that's all. It has seemed since the beginning there are some (yourself included, Robert, Tom, Keith, CDguy and others) that were having trouble understanding it, so on the heels of Cafécheckers video trying to provide further clarification, my post was intent to expand off of that.
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