I was just wondering if there was any way of finding specific cards in a shuffled deck when in a card game. For example, through peeking without being too obvious. I've been thinking about this as we often talk about bottom dealing cards while assuming that we already have the specific cards at the bottom. What if we need a good hand and want to find it within a shuffled deck? Thanks in advance.

Edge work comes to my mind, but I guess you are referring to an ungimmicked deck. tracking down previously played hands and other cards lying on the table would be the best option depending on the game you are playing.

Strippers would probably be your best bet.

Personally, I used cards signalled by accomplice(s) or, when single-o, cards glimpsed during the riffles (sort of Stevens' variant) or cards from the previous hand (which you keep on sight during the wash, shuffles, etc.).

Bottom dealing? Even inh funny games with teenagers, I haven't seen a game since 2000 without a cut card. Besides, in many games, one guy shuffles, another cuts and another one deals.

Arnold, we don’t use a cut card in our spiel cos we use a table deal. Many casinos do likewise. We also do not use a cut card in our side games of Kalooki either, which are hand self-dealt games. Once upon a time, I used a table bottom in an emergency. That was in a soft game elsewhere.

I think that is a better way to deal poker but for some reason it is not used in the US.

In your games, is the deck held flat against the table with the left hand as the cards are slipped off by the right fingers or is the deck angled slightly? Also, is the deck held by the sides or ends by the left hand?

Just curious.

Evidently "spiel" is an idiomatic or slang expression referring to your card room or establishment. Is the word commonly used in that context in England? Reason I ask is the word "spiel" has a completely different meaning in the US.

Https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZnekqb0qQU

Like that Cag.

Spiel is an illegal gambling den.

Spieler is Yiddish meaning gambler. The Jews started poker here in London about World War I. I guess it was when you guys came over here. Kalooki is popular with the Jewish boys and it has always been played alongside the poker in the gambling dens. A shilling in the £ the rake 5%. The Jewish immigrants started it here more or less. Spiels are what we call illegal gambling dens anyhow.

Thanks tommy. Did not know that about the Jews starting poker in London or the Yiddish word derivation of illegal gambling den. Very interesting.

Also, that poker dealer is fast. I do like that method of dealing though. Dealing poker from that hand, especially with a lazy or sloppy dealer makes it easier for some players to catch hole cards. Hard to win at poker if someone knows your hole cards.

A quick list of possible methods of locating cards, all of which can be used to some extent during a shuffle:

- Tracking exposed cards (like the flop in hold em)
- Tracking unexposed cards (yours or a partners hole cards)
- Visual markings (daub, juice, edge work...)
- Tactile markings (punch, black line, rough and smooth, flex)
- Gaffed peeks (shiners and other reflectors)
- Ungaffed peeks (heel peek, flashing...)
- Shaped cards (strippers, short/long/thick cards)

Did I miss anything?

TH

Yes. Slick Ace Work.

Please try to be more complete with your posts.

Tommy,

even with table deal, casinos usually use a cut card. First time I hear that. Thanks for the info.

Some do perhaps but they don't around here. Look at that dealer above and see he uses no cut card. I deal in comps sometimes in a casino and don't use one. In the old days no one used a cut card here but with the American poker on TV and all a lot now are using their ways with hand dealing and cut cards. I am trying to help you not correct you. It helps to know these little things. Things change though and you could well be right. These days I do not go far just one or two local casinos.

Yes, I agree. Cut cards started to show around 2003 and the boom of Poker (HE). People saw US dealers using it, so... everyone try to do what they see on TV.

I tried once to use slick work to try culling cards, but didn't succeded because I almost certainly messed up the work.
The "stuff" I think got transfered a bit on other cards and biased the locations. It might be a problem of the material or the cards, or me not having enough experience on that type of gaff, I should work on it again sometimes.

Slick cards work is mainly for cutting as far as I know.

Card players seldom actually start with shuffled deck; they are either start with them in new deck order or they are collecting them in from the last hand.

With regard to Arnold's comment about cut cards - I have to agree - they're used almost always. However, Rod told me a funny thing once: He only did it once or twice (that I know of), but Rod used to have the wrong sized cut card after a deck change. Mind you, this wasn't a deck switch like a cold deck, this was just a standard, "Let's change the decks because these are getting old and soiled" kind of agreement to use fresh cards. But...the new cards were always either bridge if the other decks were poker or the other way around. The cut card invariably didn't match the new decks in size, so it was discarded. And then Rod could deal bottoms to his partners. Beginning with the cut card sort of "legitimized" the game and nobody ever said anything about no longer using it after the game was well underway, especially since the reason for no longer using it seems so natural - "Oops, we bought the wrong sized cards!"

This was nothing more than a ruse to be able to deal bottoms and of course he had 25 other ways to beat you, but he told me about it years ago and I never forgot it.

Jason

Hi Jason,

I can imagine that ruse could occasionally be effective. Surely the new deck would also contain jokers and a guarantee card? If the cut card was no longer the right size, I would ask that the guarantee card be used as a cut card. My reason would be to prevent accidental exposure of the bottom card. I doubt that I would suspect it as a ploy to allow bottom dealing.


I've played with a lot of players who've dealt from a tabled deck. Actually, I'd say it's been much more common to find players in Ireland who deal with a professional looking tabled deal than it is to find players who deal with a professional looking pitch. I've used both in private games and I've seen both in Irish card rooms. I've been told by friends that tabled deals are very common in continental Europe, and most EPT dealers seem to use a tabled deal on television.

I once played in a private game with a guy who dealt from a table spread like a blackjack dealer would deal from a shoe, but without turning the cards over as the card is taken by the right hand. It struck me as a very odd way to deal poker, but I didn't object.

In games where the atmosphere is loose a delicate gambler's crimp might work. A particular kind of gaff comes close to undetectable (depending on your skill with it - would work in a private game and there are records of it being used in casinos) and it can be made on the spot (though you need to get creative and possibly make some tools for yourself). Dig on the forums, you'll get some ideas. In more loose games cutting the deck and flashing it a little may pass, but I wouldn't reccomend it. By the way I guess I live in a lucky place - a lot of people here don't even cut the deck before the deal, some croupiers (yes, croupiers!) shuffle overhand and so on Sometimes I regret having the rule of not playing for money - though I heard of a bridge tournament nearby(no cash involved, so purely for fun), so I may try some stuff there. Also read Darwin Ortiz's book on gambling protection - some ideas could pop into your mind. Going to work on some stuff that popped into my head after reading it as soon as I can. Good luck!

@dapo24

Your games are loose because you don't play for money. I'm not saying that every game where money is involved use 5 bodyguards, 25 cameras, 12 observation towers and 5 inches thick regulation books, but, usually, when there's some money around, people pay much more attention and less "originality" is allowed.