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kinesis Inner circle Scotland, surrounded by 2708 Posts 
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On May 7, 2017, nervebreaker wrote: I'm quite sure becoming a lab rat would be voluntary. You cannot make people participate in research. |
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innercirclewannabe Inner circle Ireland 1597 Posts
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I really fail to see how it becomes "lose lose" for the Medium. On the contrary, it becomes win win for all involved.As stated earlier, it would provide a forum for a genuine discussion regarding the afterlife, and the salient question of "can certain people communicate with the dead". If proven true, just tg hhibk of how the world view of a large % of the poppy would change. This can only be a positive thing. No losing here on either side.
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
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innercirclewannabe Inner circle Ireland 1597 Posts
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Excuse the typos,predictive text on an I phone is not something I welcome!
Should read; 'Just think of how the world view of a large % of people would change'.☺
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
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nervebreaker.jpg "View Profile") New user 53 Posts
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Here is link to am upcoming webinar of Leslie Kean on June 14th. https://www.foreverfamilyfoundation.org/events/165
I do feel the book is as good a proof of this communication as we currently have and certainly better documented than my personal experience so I would just refer to that as the main event. I can provide some relaying of discussions my wife has had with spirit communication and I still hope to do some offline readings but I don't believe she will provide better proof than the book. I'm just getting nervous after hearing about the bad experiences mediums have had that went down this path in the past as the book discusses. It's not something I would subject me or my wife to if I have a choice, and I do have a choice. |
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reignofsound Inner circle Glasgow, UK 2200 Posts
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Interesting thread and a good read.
Always wonder why no mediums or psychic's have came close to claiming the $1,000,000 dollars from James Randi. |
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nervebreaker New user 53 Posts
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Reignofsound: the offer from Randi has been cancelled. Reading some reports about Randi, he said he always had an out if needed.
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jstreiff Special user 701 Posts
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Biggest challenge in testing anything is understanding the nature of whatever you are testing. A skeptical magician tends to approach testing a medium as if they are looking for tricks. But the real thing doesn't work that way. Today we know that psi in general is goal-oriented; if there is no purpose nothing will happen or, even more intriguingly, unexpected things may happen.
The tests proposed here are actually clairvoyance tests, which may or may not have anything to do with mediumship. The better test is potentially verifiable personal information unknown to anyone at the time.
John
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts
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On May 7, 2017, IAIN wrote: Yes, unless it's manual for training cooks and includes traditional recipes as well as the underlying practice and theory of cooking for many contexts. Wait. This answer is only if your analogy is to some kind of myth or religious Scripture, not so much a popular book on spirits.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts
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Again, taking the "experience-centered approach" is useful for understanding people and culture.
You all seem to be stuck on the scientific approach: is a phenomenon or perception verifiable. But in one sense, we just want to know if the person is authentic and sincere, wanting to know whether she really thinks she heard a voice more than than whether we can measure sound waves. I will give another example. My stepfather told me the following story back in the 1970s, and I have no doubt he was sincere. He was in the Navy and he had a dream that his dog walked into his bunk on the ship, looked at him sadly, and walked off. Later, when he talked to his family on the phone, he discovered his dog had died at that same time. What is significant beyond proving dogs have spirits or whatever? Well, this was not a religious or spiritual guy. He never heard from other spirits and never dabbled in anything spiritual. Also, it is like some other "authentic" stories in that it's a "point-of-departure" experience: he never had contact from the dog again. I respected the experience and values of the man that told me the story. I was fascinated at the psychology. I had and have no need to accuse him of ignorance or deceit.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts
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Innercirclewannabe, while I agree that sincere authentication would be win-win, that's not what I perceive from the skeptical groups. Reward or not, the JREF appears to have a rather prejudiced agenda with this "challenge." Their agenda, as I see it, is to debunk or discredit anyone who is gutsy enough to attempt the challenge. (Now, I acknowledge that others see Randi as a seeker of truth who would accept any evidence that passes his tests, but I just don't quite see it that way.) This means the tests are conducted by an organization that starts with the view that they will win and the subject/volunteer/victim/claimed psychic will lose. There just isn't room in this approach for a win-win.
Dean Radin conducts research with a bias in favor of psi, but has pretty good research protocols. Those tests I have read about are not meant to prove or disprove one particular person's abilities, but to look for the validity of psi overall. This is a much more tedious, less glamorous approach to the problem. A big part of what he deals with is skepticism from people who want to disprove his results, rather than evaluate them. I'm not taking sides on this particular conversation. There is family legend about spirit contact, but I don't have personal experience to convince me of anything in particular on either side of the question. -Patrick |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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As a skeptic, I've always found JREF to be nonsense...
For me, I want consistency, clarity and repeatability...doesn't have to be 100% If a man feels he has premonitions in his dreams about creatures close to him, then was it a one off? Did he have similar dreams when nothing happened... Those are the kinds of things to look at...
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts
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Iain, I agree. I know that there are times in my life and from those I love and trust that dreams have provided a sort of closure, especially with dealing with death. I am open to the possibility that some or all of these dreams are spirit contact, but I am not currently comfortable claiming any of them was such. What I do know is that such dreams can help, even if it turns out to just be the unconscious mind generating the "contact" to help with processing a loss.
Fascinating conversation, thus far. -Patrick |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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Yup - and the likehood of either answer being likely...and the connotations of each on top of that...
like a metaphysical flowchart of sorts... 
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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As I said before, its nearly always treated as an argument when someone asks "ok, but why?" - its not (always) - its just trying to understand it all, as more and more questions come to mind...
I mean, why do some people get one answer and go "oh ok then" - I find that bizarre...anyway.. it does tickle me when an answer is sometimes "oh, they just don't like to do that sort of thing..." - because (like a kid) the next question is again, WHY?! if I were some kind of spirit, and someone could talk to me from the land of the living, I'd want to gossip all night long...especially if I was in limbo or just..yknow...in a very hot environment... or if I was some kind of super-powered entity that communicated with the humans, I'd be giving very clear and informative descriptions of the place that I existed in, with very clear explanations...I mean, why not? for me (humanising it) it would be like me calling someone up, but only speaking to them in riddles...what would be the point? if its a test, that's kinda short-sighted, as I would be able to observe for as long as I wanted, and silently judge them ready when I felt it was right...
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts
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Quote:
On May 8, 2017, IAIN wrote: It's a one off. It doesn't prove anything from a scientific approach, of course. It might be interesting from an existential or experience approach...
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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In which case, its only the emotional value that makes it meaningful, and should only be seen as meaningful to the person who had the experience...
that should be enough in my opinion... we all experience emotionally states, that doesn't make that state true or valid or even real to a degree...what we feel isn't necessarily the truth or 'reality'...however, because of the way humans sometimes work, it becomes something else, something bigger and wider than it should be...I guess partly because some of us want some kind of re-inforcement of those feelings, and rather than accept a coincidence, we allow it to become something else, re-label it, and misremember it too... creating our own folklore...
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nervebreaker New user 53 Posts
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Eternal Order: I think a lot is perspective. Spirit world knows you came from "heaven" and end up there and you will spend most of your time there getting questions answered whenever you like and with more capacity? I'm guessing, to understand than us in the physical world can do. So why consume a physical entities very short lifetime, from there perspective, with information you already and will also gain when you leave this world. Not good time management 😁
Plus if the physical being is not wanting to be a seeker then the information will either be ignored, derailing possibly, or useful. I've told people I know why we come to the physical world and they said. That's nice. If you aren't in a place on your spiritual development that coincides with the information, then it doesn't resonate and is discarded or ignored, no matter how true it may be. I also have a sense of how unfathomable this a is and realize I can't drink from firehouse forever. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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Quote:
On May 8, 2017, nervebreaker wrote: in which case, it seems strange to me that they would speak to spirit-mediums (or whatever term you want to use) - if the rest of your paragraph is true...almost seems a bit cruel to me!
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts
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The other thing that strikes me is that it goes towards a universe of multi-truths (I made that term up) - where different psychic-mediums explain things differently from one another, religions explain things differently too...and so on...
even when one contradicts another! so do we not bother with the concept of a singular truth about (in this instance) the afterlife? again, why?!
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nervebreaker New user 53 Posts
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Not cruel if that's my path and journey here. I'm curious about almost everything and when I run out of questions in a session they leave us be. If you choose to spend your time that way you can but it's also why I say " oh Ok" as I can't consume it all but I can get the sense of the intention usually, I think anyway. 😉
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Posted: May 8, 2017 09:34 am 
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