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DutchMagicMan New user 16 Posts |
Hello to you all! I'm new at this forum! I've been reading it for about a year and spent a good amount of time reading a lot of great content on this forum. Thank you all very much for all your help and advice (indirect, but still very apreciated)! This is my first topic and also my first message - so I hope I'm not doing anything wrong here.
I'm sorry for my english, I'm dutch so I am not as used with it as I'd like to. I should probably work on that I've been into magic for around 5 years now, and am an actor in The Netherlands. I combined my acting and magic and made a magic show for children. I hired a theater director and I now have a solid show. I started presenting it in january and it has actually been going pretty well. I've performed the show a lot so far. Now we come to the reason of why I am writing this topic. I've just been through two weeks of school vacation in The Netherlands and had a lot of shows. It went well and this weekend I got several calls from places I went these weeks, asking if I could come back in the summer. I said Yes! and now am booked to return to a place that has already seen my show and seen my tricks. I was honest to them about the show being what it is. They were fine with that. Still this got me thinking: are the kids going to enjoy the show if is exacetly the same? And how does one change his show, without it losing quality? Should I have different shows, so that when I return to a place I have a whole new content? I'm sorry, it got quite long. I hope my question is clear and was just wondering how you people handle this? Thank you in advance and I look forward to reading your answers! |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Hi! "Wooden Shoe Magician!!!
Welcome to our "motley crew"! No need to apologize for your "English" (!) American English, while basically English, is a "mixture" of many nationalities. 13% of our American language comes almost directly from Anglo-Saxon English! (EGAD!) According to THAT, "GHOTI" spells "FISH"! --GH, in "enough" = the "F" sound! O in "women" = the "I" sound! TI, in "definition = the "SH" sound! I think that you expressed yourself quite well! I'll TRY to get back to you, in a day or two, with some thoughts on your "challenge". P.S. I visited the land of "wooden shoes", windmills, and dikes, fifty years ago, and it was delightful. O
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Dr. O Veteran user NC 395 Posts |
Welcome DutchMagicMan. Will the audience be the same children for the summer? If your show is solid I would not worry too much. You might consider substituting some effects to vary things a little as long as you are comfortable that it doesn't disrupt the flow.
Best of luck to you and you are in the right place to get sage advice. |
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Andy Young Special user Jersey Shore, PA 813 Posts |
What is the age range of the kids?
I find younger ones love to see the same things over and over again. My kids watched that Mr. Peabody movie just about everyday for a month. Also they ask for the same effects over and over for me to do. They will watch a new one, but always ask for the old ones. Perhaps just sprinkle one newer effect in the middle. Don't completely change it. That is my opinion. Take it or leave it. Sounds like you have a solid show though. Congratulations |
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TKD27 Elite user Wallingford, CT 458 Posts |
Your English is better than most Americans who post online, so don't sweat that.
As to the show, I used to stress about this, too, but I stopped worrying about it. The fact is, if kids loved something they'll want to see it again. I just went to see Guardians of the Galaxy 2 last night. It was excellent. The moment it comes out on home video I'm going to buy it and re-watch it, even though I've heard all the jokes and I've seen the plot. Kids, specifically, love to watch the same thing over and over again. My youngest daughter asks to watch Dumbo every day. She loves it. I really wouldn't sweat it. If you want to use the opportunity to work on new material, that's cool, you can do that. But if you're really happy with your show and just want to keep it the way it, leave it and perform the exact same act. The kids will still love it. That said, the one worry I have about doing it this way is the adults. My mother-in-law works at a day care, and she complains to me that the magician they hire does the same tricks every year. I ask, "do the kids still enjoy the show?" And she concedes that yes, they love it. But she wishes he'd do something different. In my mind, this magician is doing exactly the right thing. He's got a solid show and he's bringing it every year and delighting the kids. But if she was in charge of hiring people she's stop hiring him because it's the same material. So I guess that's a good reason to consider putting together a second show, but that's much more of a "want" than a "need" for you.
Connecticut Kids' Magician, Matt Matthews (formerly known as Matt The Balloon Man)
Magic Shows, Face Paintingand, Balloon twisters. |
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arthur stead Inner circle When I played soccer, I hit 1773 Posts |
Daag, DutchMagicMan! (I lived in Scheveningen for 3 years).
If you’ll only be performing to repeat customers once a year, I wouldn’t worry too much about changing things. But when you start getting real busy, and one birthday party leads to another a week or a month in the future (where you'll be seeing a lot of familiar kids' faces), you would be wise to substitute a few other tricks and routines in the return performance. Or maybe even have a completely different, alternate show available for such occasions. For school assemblies, library programs and educational daycare shows, I used to write and develop totally new shows every year. Veel succes! Arthur |
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DutchMagicMan New user 16 Posts |
Thank you all for the time to respond to my topic.
Dick Oslund, I look forward to reading your response! I am happy to hear you had a nice experience in the Netherlands, some 50 years ago. It might have changed a bit with the years Dr. O, some places will have different kids, some places will have the same. In this topic I meant the places where the kids are the same, so I’d deal with the same audience. I feel like I might start introducing some new routines with time. Andy Young, the age I’m focusing on is from 4 till 10. Yet I’ve made some changes and have the same show for 2-4 now as well (performing for this group has been a delight, and far easier than I expected!). I’m also working on making it good for 10-12 year old, but feel that I might need to change too much to make it appropriate. My silly approach to the young ones is the main power in the show, and I’m not sure how to make this work for 10-12 year olds. The show is solid for my age group and I hope it will work for multiple times (for the same audience). TKD27, this is actually something I was thinking of myself: not only do I present the show to the young ones, but indeed there will be adults watching it again as well (and they are paying my check at the end of the day). I recognize that they might not enjoy it as much as they did the first time, due to it being more of the same. Goedemorgen Arthur Stead! As a Edenaar, I’m very jealous of you… Scheveningen is a far better place to live at! As I’ve read all the messages above, I feel that it might be wise to indeed make something new at a certain point. Just have to find the time and the right inspiration to make new routines. I’ve spend around 6 months making this show, and I feel I would have to do the same if I’d make something new. In general it might be a good idea to start learning some new routines and introduce them in the show every now and then. This will help getting new stuff to perform at old places. |
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Gerry Walkowski Inner circle 1450 Posts |
I spent a few days in Amsterdam back in the Eighties, and I didn't want to leave. Even stopped in to see Hank Vermeyden.
I'm sure I might be repeating some things said above. I believe there are two avenues of thought about this subject. The first is, improve upon the act you already have so that it becomes your trademark. Some performers never change their acts, and they have became famous for it. While he may have introduced a new effect here or there, Harry Blackstone Jr. always performed his signature routines such as the Rope-Tie, Vanishing Bird Cage, Floating Light Bulb, and Dancing Handkerchief. Jay Marshall always presented the same basic 5-6 tricks. When I work festivals, I rarely change my act every year. I know a lot of the same people come back to see me year after year, but I'm okay with that. In my opinion, there is an entire segment of the population that don't like things to change. Now, having said that, I do have about 2 different magic shows that I rotate during Christmastime. One year they'll see me do 5-6 effects, and the following year I'll do something completely different. To be honest, I mainly do this for the adults. At the same time, it gives me a chance to try out some new things. Hope this helps. Gerry |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Ja! Goedemorgen!
When I decided to "quit my day job", and "go pro." in the mid '60s, I had been doing the same basic show for about 10 or 12 years. I had been a part time professional since my youth. The show was good, but, I had several routines that required a bit of set up. For example, I was closing with a big silk production from tambourine rings, etc. I realized that school assembly tours, often scheduled 3 shows a day (sometimes 4) and, there would be travel time, also. I established criteria for my repertoire! The silk production was cut! After a week on the road, I made a few slight "adjustments". I had developed a repertoire that could play almost anywhere, for almost anybody. The basic routine allowed for slightly different presentations, depending on the ages of the audience. In the course of one day, I might have a primary school (Kindergarten thru 3rd grade) a Junior High School (7 thru 9) a Senior High School (10 thru 12) and, in rural areas, Kindergarten thru High School! Some times, there were evening programs for senior citizens! I could repeat a territory every four years. I used the "classics". (I learned from TARBELL as a teenager!) Of course, I "updated" Tarbell's patter and presentations. I had steady work for 50 +/- years! Now, a few specifics: Most of the material used GENERIC PROPS. Silks, rope, golf balls, coins (Misers Dream) cards (fancy shuffles) etc. I did use a few DEDICATED PROPS like egg bag, 3 linking rings, Trouble Wit, and comedy props like breakaway fan, and, wands. On two occasions, the breakaway fan routine got me a standing ovation in Senior High Schools! I did not use any "catalog kid tricks" like Hippity Hop Rabbits, or Die Box. (Local magicians may have used them, and they are, in my thinking, "one time props". I did use one "sucker trick", BUT, the "suckering" was SOFTENED. I didn't want kids SCREAMING. I wanted them LAUGHING! I agree with the posters above. Kids will forget details, and, enjoy seeing the show again. (Just don't do the "standard kid show sucker tricks"! If you plan on staying in the same area, where you might have the same kids at different parties, or events, it would probably be a good idea to be working on a few other routines, which would keep the show fresh. Always put a "new" routine, BETWEEN two strong, proven ones! Jay Marshall and I shared the same philosophy, regarding how to add a new trick or routine: 1. Learn how it is DONE! 2. Learn how to DO IT! 3. Learn how to DO it, so that it ENTERTAINS the audience! (THAT'S THE "HARD ONE"!) I hope this has been helpful! Gerry mentioned Jay Marshall's "5 or 6 tricks". Jay opened with the vanishing cane. (In later years, he added a paper hat routine (the "saga of Juan Escadero", which "set up" the cane vanish. The cut and restored rope, followed. Over the years, he added the Professor's Nightmare, and, used the Vishnu method for the "c & r". The Chinese sticks followed. Then Trouble Wit, and, sometimes chapeaugraphy. If there were kids in the group, he would do Al Baker's "Fir Tree" and "Jacob's Ladder". He had made his own linking rings (5), and, finished with Lefty (ventriloquism). His encore was the Serpentine Silk. If he needed to do an hour, he would add Punch & Judy. The Walsh cane could be "set" in 15-20 seconds. The Al Baker Tree and Ladder was set at home. Jay and I worked many "family night" dates, together, in the '70s and '80s.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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DutchMagicMan New user 16 Posts |
So much great advice! Thank you all so much!
Gerry Walkowski, Amsterdam is great! I live in the Netherlands, and don't like it when I leave Amsterdam. I too, only do 5 tricks in my show (6 if you consider Rocky Raccoon). I've learned a lot out of books I bought the last two years or so. Presentation is key! And the truth is that doing a 5 tricks show cost me far more practice then a 20 tricks show. I now have to fill those 'gaps', and work on how to present it. You - and all others before you - are giving solid advice! It seems I might be starting to think of a new show after the summer. I just want to keep the core of my show (the character, the message, etc.) the same. Dick Oslund, thank you for your reply! I agree with you that working with 'generic' props helps a lot when you set up. Last weekend I had a total of 5 shows in one day. So it helped that my show consists of rope, spongeballs, coins (Misers Dream as well, actually!), silks and a colouring book. I like how you said: make them laugh, don't make them scream. That is something that never occured to me, but you are so right! I have a very loud routine that just isn't working the way I want it to work - and it might just be because the kids are asked to scream, not to laugh. Once more, I get the idea I should start working on a few new routines first and bring them in my show slowly. Once I have enough 'new' routines, I can start thinking about making a new show out of those! Once more, thank you all so much for your time and responses! |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2392 Posts |
Your English is very good and I understand exactly what you are asking. In fact, I asked the same question 6 years ago:
http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&start=0 If you read through the thread you can see there are different opinions on the subject. What else is new? My answer 6 years later really has not changed too much. I will change about half the show. This way the audience will see something new and still see all of their favorite parts from last year. Although, if its less than 6 months I will change it almost completely. I was reminded of the importance of this with just last Saturday. I had 4 children in my audience that just saw my show about 3 weeks ago. I couldn't do much about it because I didn't know they would be there. They blurted out to the audience what was going to happen in almost every trick. This is just one of the challenges of doing children's shows. I have never stopped challenging myself to come up with new material. Some routines never get into my A show, some do. But over the years I have developed a solid A, B and C show that are almost completely different.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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DutchMagicMan New user 16 Posts |
Hello Ken! Thank you so much for sharing this other topic. Little has changed in 6 years I went through the whole think and come to believe it might be good to have some routines that I'll include whenever I do a repeat booking in a small amount of time (as you do yourself). I can very much see the same that happend to you last saturday happening to me, once I start performing my show for an audience that has seen it already. Kids love to scream when something is coming they already know - yet this does indeed affect the impact for the other kids. It might be wise to actually start the show asking the kids that know what is coming, not to tell it! I've found kids are willing to listen if you ask them nicely!
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
This might be too simple answer for some.
I return. Harris Still too old to know it all
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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longdeademperor New user 69 Posts |
This is a great thread. Thanks for all sharing your advice.
DutchMagicMan, have you thought about changing the type of effects you perform with the props you already have? For example, vanishing some rope instead of cutting and restoring it or transforming a silk instead of vanishing it? That way, when you bring the prop out, if any child who has already seen the show shouts out what you are going to do, you can perform an alternative routine. Although the type of magical effect will be different, you may be able to preserve much of the structure of the original routine and add some new comedy business. |
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arthur stead Inner circle When I played soccer, I hit 1773 Posts |
Just to add a little more to my post above: I mentioned that for school/library/daycare shows, I developed completely new shows every year. But that doesn’t mean I changed every single trick. Every new show did have new material with new props. But sometimes I included the same trick I performed before, but with a totally different storyline.
For example, I have a prediction trick using large cards with pictures on them. In my Reading program, these pictures are of inventors whose inventions changed the world (which ties in to reading books about famous inventors and how their inventions benefitted our way of life). In my Geography show, I do the same trick, but using pictures of Australian animals and a story-line involving that topic. Animals like the Platypus and Tasmanian Devil can add quite a bit of humor to a routine! And for my Magic Of Ancient Egypt program, I use pictures relating to aspects of ancient ancient Egyptian life, such as King Tut, hieroglyphics, the Sphynx, the pyramids, etc. By “refreshing” your presentations in this way, you can economize and perform the same trick over and over in different shows. In my experience, I’ve never had anybody say: “I’ve seen that before.” |
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DutchMagicMan New user 16 Posts |
Hello to you all! Yes, changing some routines and keeping the same props might be a good way to keep it fresh and have the same amount of fun! Harris, it isn't 'to simple'. I agree with you, I should jus return! What I don't want is kids saying: "I've already seen this!", "Can't you do something else!?" and so on.
Now I just had a few comebacks this week and the reactions were actually stronger the second time around! They already knew me, so knew what to expect. They laught harder, screamed louder and had more fun. Something that bothered me though, was that at the end one of the adults came to me and asked: "So, do you do other shows as well?" I said I didn't really, and he said: "Well, this one is awesome and the kids love it!". He meant this well, but he obviously refered to it being 80% the same as the first was. So as TKD27 had already pointed out above, it might be wise to change somethings - more for the adults then for the children really. |
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Russo Inner circle So.California / Centl.Florida / retired Florida 1165 Posts |
When a kid said "I've already seen this" - my reply is "Good - now YOU can help me fool the others - OK?" or possible -" Why don't YOU come up here and help me- and keep the secret"
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harris Inner circle Harris Deutsch 8812 Posts |
Simple - Yes & No.
I have returned to see the same 7th graders for a school year and 8th graders going on 2 years. They still ask me to pick a card. I know a few controls and lots of reveals. Also added is different words, sound effects and props found in their classrooms Yesterday I used spinners. ( the latest "thing" for kids) Years ago I saw Goshman and got his books. Though he was a great technician his best advice was The magic is you. Some say I have the chops the licks but it is the Schtick / bits of business that are important to this "Reader and Righter".
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com music, magic and marvelous toys http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
P.S.~!!!
Arthur Stead's makes a good point! Using GENERIC props allows you to vary the program, and, sometimes even the EFFECT! That's one of the reasons that I've always avoided the "stock kid props" (e.g. Hip Hop Bunnies.)that only produce one EFFECT. I'm not familiar with the prediction trick with the cards, but, I think his "thinking" is great. "If you know a dozen forces and controls, and only one revelation, to the audience, you are doing the same trick! If you know one good force, or one control, and ten different revelations, it's like ten different tricks! With a few pieces of rope, I can do a knot routine (add a 4" ring, and a whole different routine). Use three ropes, and, I have the Professor's Nightmare. With one piece, a cut/restored rope is possible. With two ropes, a wand, and a few silks, the cords of fantasia, is a funny routine, that also directly involves several kids. (Rope as a basic prop provides many possible EFFECTS!) Ditto, silks! Cards, also! (for little kids, 10 cards across, 6 card repeat, etc. Little ones like to show you that they can count!!!) Paper party napkins are good for torn & restored. Balled up, they can be used like sponge balls. When I was starting out, in the 40s, many old times told me, "You can't do sleight of hand tricks for little kids." As a young teenager, I didn't realize that those old guys didn't understand that their idea of sleight of hand was a boring "skill demonstration"! They were doing a "look how clever I am" show!!! 3/4 of my show involves hand skills with generic props! Harris reminded me of Al Goshman's philosophy. Al and I were friends, and, his: "The MAGIC is YOU!" should be your "first thought" when you are entertaining kids!!! So! Think: "GENERIC"! Think "COLORFUL"! Think LAUGHING, NOT SCREAMING!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Russo Inner circle So.California / Centl.Florida / retired Florida 1165 Posts |
Did you know Al Goshman was a Baker!!- I know him in the 60s-70s when we were members of the 'Castle'- remember one day walking up Hollywood blvd and Goshman was coming my way - ALL coverd with flower dust. He was so good with the sponge balls - taught my Wife a routine.. Ralph
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