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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
On my other thread about working corporate, Robert Smith and I have a difference of opinions on the value of social media for b2b professional services.
in my view, social media presense/content is not used by economic buyers for decisioning. Buyer decisions are based on factors such as need solved benchmarked against cost vs value delivered. Social media posts aren't the key drivers to brand value, but they can support in maintaining an existing brand. I do believe social media may generate value to a business for consumer purchases and drive direct product revenues. In the b2b environment, I don't see the direct link from ad/post to product revenue of entertainment services in the corporate market. Understand that I don't consider a Facebook ad to a small business owners and getting a Christmas gig working corporate. Nor do I see someone hiring an entertainer for a trade show because of a Facebook post/ad. I see social media as providing support to an already existing brand, samething with a blog or a website for professional services. They already want you so checking social media and websites only provide support to buying my service. Can b2b sales via social media happen? sure. But the exception is not the rule and for a return on time and economic investment. I currently see value by creating real world relationships with true buyers with authority to say yes and sign off on payment. By real world I am Meaning someone I know or meet in person and can have a drink with. I am willing to learn and be proven wrong. Can you social media gurus be willing to show me some fact based proof that contradicts my assumptions? If you are willing to do so, I want to set expectations of my responses. I'm not dismissing or attacking, I question rigorously till it is clear, fact based, and actionable. I'm holding the microscope to it, to ur replies so I can truly understand the opinions and supporting evidence of social media users in a business to business environment for professional services. Thanks, Walter |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I see Robert deleted his response.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
I deleted my reply as well. Robert and I will take this conversation offline. Thanks everyone
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Walter,
It is a FACT that businesses do use facebook to check on people that they may be hiring or dealing with. So why in the world wouldn’t you want to give them easy access to finding out a little about you? Why not be there presenting a favorable impression of yourself. It’s the perfect place to create a reference and humanism yourself. HUGE Businesses like dealing with real people, and millions of dollars are spent every day by giant corporations trying to prove they have real people working with them. Of all the people you would think that an ‘entertainer’ especially a ‘professional’ would want a presence on social media. Why make it so hard for prospects to find you? Why not let them see firsthand that you have fans and past customers. Surely they think that an ‘entertainer’ has normal fans out there someplace. Be good if they could see you interacting with a few of them. I guess you could do that with your website, but that's viewed as being and advertisement whereas all of social media isn't seen that way. Still I do understand that your situation may indeed be different. If over the years you have built a reputation within the corporate world then you may not need to ever convince anyone. But most can’t make that claim, and for us to hint or suggest that others can do the same in a short time, or even in a lifetime, is very misleading in my opinion. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Tom again you refute things nobody but you claim. The heat from your burning straw men is intense.
Here is the difference. If I was going to buy smoke detector for my house Facebook adds during for suppression week would be great. At a consumer level that is good. As a company that is a good target. But if I want a fire suppression system for my business those ads mean nothing. As a company that seeks to sell fire suppression systems to other businesses it makes no sense to have smoke detector buyers. Most looking for such a system wouldn't use Facebook to make the decision. They may use it as one tool, but perhaps the starting point might be somewhere else. Robert seems to think this is incorrect. No problem. I would love to simply learn why that is true. I am moving to needing to use Facebook and would like to do it right. Expanding knowledge is good.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
I agree people don’t go to facebook to find out where to buy smoke detectors.
But they just might go there looking for an 'individual' doing business as an entertainer. If they do go looking for the person and finds them, and then later an ad pops up about it too, double bingo. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
Tom,
Large companies do use Facebook when hiring employees and promoting an agenda to consumers. I have fired and not hired because of Facebook posts and comments. Why? The persons digital presense eroded any credibility or ability to be taken professionally. From a business perspective, using Facebook to market a social agenda makes sense but not for acquiring customers. This is my distinction. Lets illustrate this with BP. Bp doesn't make money from consumers- they sell to both plastics manufacturing and gas distributers. In the end, why did they devote so much to social media after the oil spill if it didn't add sales. To shift consumer sentiments as a proactive measure against environmental lobbyists. In other words it was a preemptive PR stunt. Here is my view. I'm high value, my marketing efforts are designed to reach my potential business client thru a credible business oriented third party source. These are trade journals etc. now my prospects see my value showcased by someone that they value creating credibility and affirming my high value. Now when the prospect reaches out to me via my website. my website is a means to reach me first, and secondly reaffirm my credibility established by a major institution that is relevant to the prospects industry. I don't see how Facebook can do this. Facebook is for targets consumer, small business owners are still considered consumer by major institutions. If you want proof just go to your local bank branch. Retail banking targets consumers and small business owners because the mindset is the same. I believe anyone who wants to enter the corporate markets should start focusing on creating a corporate focused branding, using key third parties to create a credibility and reputation. The return is greater spent there then Facebook. Why would I post on Facebook who I'm entertaining for? The general public doesn't need to know, additionally, this could lead to privacy violations with the company. Just because I can do something doesn't mean I should. It's not about making it hard to find me, actually it's the opposite. If I have clear channels of advertising and promotion away from the general barrage of consumer social media comments, memes, etc. my message comes thru clearly over the "radio waves" without the static. When it comes to fans. They don't care if I have fans. I knew an IRS tax agent who had fans because she was very attractive. what they want to see, past clients, demonstrated and entertainment value is in my press kit And they receive that at inquiry. But like I said in the beginning, if you use Facebook ads for generating b2b contracts for professional services, please explain to me what I'm missing. Because I don't see it. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Walter, I too have used facebook to hire and fire people. Yes the right employees can destroy a small company on there if you let em.
I also often check out anybody I’m looking to do business with especially those that go by a real name. I think you may be assuming that all of facebook is made up of the general public. Not so, you get to choose your own circle of friends on there. If you only want to hang with the big wheels, you can do that too. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
Tom,
That's only if you are allowed. Every big wheel I've met strives for online privacy of their personal life. These guys protect their privacy more than anything so they usually have a team crafting and maintaining their online image and persona. I found as a whole, Facebook usage dropped off as they moved up from middle to senior management. Just my experience, Walter |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
To get this topic back on track this is not about using FB to hire, fire or spy on would be employment candidates and Tom has twisted this to.
It IS about b2b, the use of FB in business operations in professional markets. Tom has no experience with this and doesn't care to try to learn about it, Robert's info was also not about the same topic, this is not about hiring people to selling smoke detectors to consumers, so let's continue on with the topic. There are people here that perform in professional markets, conduct b2b, understand the difference in professional and consumer markets and their individual approaches, and that this is not about "social" use or targets, or those that have interest in possibly pursuing professional markets so, so let's continue with what Walter has introduced here, not some twisted off-shoot direction that some don't understand (that is in the other derailed thread and why Walter chose to star this thread, to keep the two separate.) |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Maybe my problem is I can’t see any magician/entertainers here being viewed by a huge company as being anything other than an ‘individual’ that is doing business. Nothing wrong with that but if that is the case all this b2b talk is not as important as it is being made out to be. It’s mixing apples and oranges.
But anyway, sorry for the distraction, y’all can go back to dealing with the big wheels. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Just because you can't see it in no way means it doesn't happen.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
I think what Tom says is perhaps true for several others here as well, Danny is right it does exist whether you realize it, understand it or accept it or not.
I have made the point before that many entertainers that operate in professional markets do not have websites, do not use social media and are not concerned with social proof and so many of the "heavy" issues of consumer level performers such as things Tom has mentioend like post cards, business cards, youtube videos, and so forth. Professional market entertainers operate differently in ways that are most productive, beneficial and conducive to the way professional market professionals and businesses conduct operations and their business. This is completely foreign to many consumer level/market performers, BUT consumer-level/market methods, techniques and operations ARE NOT foreign to every professional market entertainer as they, as all of us did, started in consumer markets themselves. It is for this reason you can learn the most from those that have experience in both, know, understand and have experienced the differences. You can tell by Tom's posts and the way he twists things always to a consumer level discussion, mentality or opinions, that he doesn't know or comprehend this. I say that not in a bad way, but factually, as by his own admission above. However there is no point at all or benefit in trying to fanagle consumer market mentalities and approaches into topics, discussions and operations regarding professional markets. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Perhaps using the term ‘Commercial' instead of "Professional' market would be less offensive to us little low level consumer people.
Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Yeah, the industry will change the term just to suit you. Please give it up Tom. And also quit putting your own inappropriate, incorrect tone to something never said or intended. Your self-pitty and victimization when you don't understand something isn't becoming to you. Again, it seems you have a comprehension problem Tom.
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
Tom,
The number of employees is not relevant in a b2b capacity. Let me give you an example, I had 2 financial services clients whom both had over $30 million lines of credit with me. Both companies did between 30-50$ million in revenue. One had about 50 employees the other had 5. We treated them the same. Big companies care less about the number of employees in a business then if the business can deliver. It's not even about cost. I remember, We've paid more for a 1 person consultant firm than a medium tier one but he delivered on the need and brought more value than the larger shop. The same goes for entertainment services, corporate cares for results and professionalism. And they will pay for it. The real driver in b2b, I have found is its relationship driven, so real buyers go to a peer for a referral, low level employees search the internet. So I target ways to cultivate real relationships with buyers so the know my name and can call me. I hear people saying b2b professional services sales can be done thru Facebook, I don't see how in my experience and knowledge of the industry, that's why I'm asking. |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
Quote:
On May 14, 2017, TomBoleware wrote: Tom, Entertainment falls under professional services as an expense category on a p&l for accountancy, therefore larger corporations and businesses will refer to it that way. It has nothing to do with professionalism of the performer. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Just thought since all markets have professionals within them, perhaps ‘Commercial ‘market would be less offensive than ‘professional’ market.
Of course I completely understand why mindpro would prefer using professional. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Walter, unstopping the toilets is sometimes listed as a professional service.
Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
Not on a p&l Tom. But lets keep this focused on b2b social media. If people here want a 101 on accounting and how it affects us as entertainers, I'll start a new thread.
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