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Furniture Elite user London 415 Posts |
Hi guys,
Here is a video showing a mishmash of ideas on handling doubles. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk0Iw8_hDeE Please share your thoughts (without being offensive). What is your favourite method? Thanks in advance, |
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NicholasD Inner circle 1458 Posts |
They were smoothly done. However, I have never been a fan of Stuart Gordon and other sort of fancy turnovers. I believe that just turning the card(s) over as you would normally turn over one card makes it more of a secret move.
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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts |
I totally agree with Nicholas. Simply turning them over as naturally as possible is the most deceptive, like Ron Bauer's and Joshua Jay's doubles. Those are truly amazing doubles.
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts |
Wait, I'm confused. How does turning over the card elegantly or with a certain flair make it less deceptive?
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Jugglery. Nicely done jugglery however, but jugglery all the same.
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terryisaacs Regular user 110 Posts |
Quote:
On May 15, 2017, Furniture wrote: Really enjoyed this video, thanks for sharing. I liked the first and second one a lot.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts |
Quote:
On May 15, 2017, magicfish wrote: Is a pressure fan "jugglery"? Why or why not? |
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Lets stick to the subject matter which is the simulation of turning over a single card.
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts |
Dude. I'm trying to engage your otherwise conversation-killing post. A more interesting conversation than just "meh it's juggling."
I know I need to stop expecting more out of this place. The Magic Café is like a combination of an abusive boyfriend and a trainwreck. I keep coming back... And I can't look away. |
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terryisaacs Regular user 110 Posts |
Quote:
On May 15, 2017, magicfish wrote: The question is not whether it looks different than a normal person flipping over a Card. The question is whether his double lift simulates the action of a person doing a flourish to flip over a single card. I think fancy dl can be equally as deceptive as a normal one as long as there is naturalness and good timing still, at least to laymen. Just my two cents and little bit of experience though.
"What we do in life echoes in eternity"
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts |
What Terry said. Normal people also don't pressure fan, kick cut, precise all-around-square-ups, running cuts, count the cards from pinch grip into dealing grip....
I could go on. They don't do any of these things, but magicians do. Are those to be avoided as well? Why or why not? |
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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts |
I'm just saying my own actual observation. Everyone I see cardists do a fancy elegant double I immediately know it's a double. I don't know why I just know so I think it's less deceptive.
Also double is simulating turning over a single card, while pressure fan, running cuts And such are not simulations to anything. |
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts |
Quote:
On May 16, 2017, SimonCard wrote: That's great. But that's a moot point because you're a magician. Quote:
Also double is simulating turning over a single card, while pressure fan, running cuts And such are not simulations to anything. Well, first, they certainly can be simulations, or at the very least a part of secret actions. A pressure fan action palm. Vernon's one handed slip cut. The up-the-ladder false running cut. These are all standard and accepted sleights. But I'm still not grasping your larger point. Why does the fact that it's simulating turning over a card matter? MY point is that just because we handle something more elegantly than a non-magician doesn't make it somehow undesirable. That's silly. We SHOULD handle things better than them. That's what's expected of us. |
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FalseDeal New user 76 Posts |
Hairdressers don't handle shears the same as regular people because they're experts with them. Painters don't handle brushes and rollers like regular people because they're experts with them. To that point, we should handle cards like experts because we're supposed to be experts with them.
Unless you're fixated on the idea that no manual dexterity should ever be on show because otherwise, it's not magic? If that's your viewpoint, go watch Ricky Jay. |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Make your doubles look like singles and your singles look like doubles.
I naturally turned over a single card like a Stuart Gordon double before I started doing anything with magic - so that's how I turn over any number of cards.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Quote:
On May 16, 2017, FalseDeal wrote: Ricky Jay is one of the best closeup magicians ever. And he uses flourishes. |
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FalseDeal New user 76 Posts |
Quote:
On May 16, 2017, magicfish wrote: Exactly the point. |
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Furniture Elite user London 415 Posts |
As Vernon said, all the rules of the art can be broken. Handling doubles in style, in the context of a routine where the spectators have been used to certain way of holding the cards is fine, me thinks. Ascanio would handle, lift, turnover and lay doubles beautifully and I don't think he can be criticised for it (particularly by us, mere mortals).
About the video, the first one handed lift is a blend of Rene Lavand one-handed DB and David Blaine style of double lift. |
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dgiancaspro Regular user New York City 122 Posts |
I think the first question to ask is why would a spectator expect that the card you are turning over is a double? If you are raising enough suspicion it really doesn't matter how you turn the double over. I don't think using an elegant turn over is going to raise suspicion as long as there is uniformity of action. If you handle the card differently all of a sudden then you will raise suspicion. The only exception would be if there is a presentational element ... maybe in a ACR you may use a turnover like Lee Asher's Acrobatic Diving Board Double "and your card goes to the top so fast it pop off the top and flips over ... ". Handle your singles like your doubles and the ony people who will be the wiser is other magicians and even if you fool them they won't let you know
"Mommy when I grow up I want to be a magician"
"Oh sweety you can't do both." |
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Quote:
On May 16, 2017, FalseDeal wrote: Then why do you want us to go watch him to see zero manual dexterity? |
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