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StreetWitch New user Dayton, Ohio 64 Posts |
I am doing some clever forces, but don't know of any real good revelations. Could anyone help with this?
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Closeup Card Magic - Lorayne
Royal Road- Hugard, Braue Expert Card Technique- Hugard, Braue |
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0pus Inner circle New Jersey 1739 Posts |
What are the forces? If you can do an excellent classic force, you can "throw it away" like this:
"Pick a card; oh, I'm sorry, for some reason this doesn't work with the seven of diamonds. Please pick another. Oh, it's the seven again; let's put that aside." |
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts |
I love this question! Every time that I see it.
Inevitably. someone will give a mildly smug near-sighted answer about how forces aren't a trick in and of themselves... Someone else will give a comment about how you should check out "Revelations" by this person or that (only to find out that such compilations have 'revelations' that are generally tied to methods not related to forces). So I'll tell you how I have thought through this same question on several occasions. There are a few questions that you have to answer when working forward like this (starting with the method and ending with a reveal) rather than in reverse (starting with a reveal and then figuring out a method -which is how most effects are created-): These questions are connected/sequential... but they will help keep you from wasting a bunch of time in your search. 1. What does a force allow you to do that other methods don't? 2. What kinds of conclusions depend on a force? 3. When is a force not relevant? The answers give you book-end limitations on what is possible with a force... and it should help you think more clearly about what you can do with it. Answers... 1. A force allows you to predetermine the spectator's selection, rather than working with a card that is not known to you until the trick starts (duh.) 2. The only conclusions that depend on a force are the one's that are 'set in stone' like: -Predictions that are in full view prior to the selection of the card -Card to impossible location effects... especially card to REALLY impossible location effects (situations that can't be solved with typical sleights and misdirection). -Any situation where the conventional method of performing an effect would involve undesirable (too difficult) sleights. Most "think of a card" revelations can be watered down to a reveal after a force. 3. Card forces aren't relevant in any effects that don't have these boundaries (i.e. forcing a card is not useful in a sandwich effect... unless you are sandwiching the selection between the jokers of another boxed deck of cards!!!) So... some off-the-cuff brainstormed ideas: - Have a prediction with an extravagant revelation... tattoos, permanent ink (a revelation from a card printed on the box -Bicycle decks have the 10 of hearts on the back-, have two selected cards turn in to a double faced card), written in places that are unreachable, the use of a cell phone gag (email, photo, text message), etc. - Destroy or lose the card and have it show up ANYWHERE (via a duplicate)... I've thought about doing an ACR kind of effect by having the selection go one place, find it, then lose or destroy it again and have it jump somewhere else, etc. Have it show up in sealed vessels (water bottle, etc). You might not be able to have the card signed, but you could potentially have it marked, for some reason, in such a way that it gives some psychological legitimacy (have two cards 'selected' and then YOU write the name of the first card on the second, etc.) - Invisible "do as I do" effect... Have two boxed decks. Open one and have a card or cards selected. Rearrange the deck with the card(s) (turn them over, put them in a specific order, etc.) Have the spectator imagine what you are doing with the boxed deck in their hands. Open their boxed deck and find everything exactly as you seemingly, randomly, selected and arranged it. (There are ALL KINDS of implications for this sort of idea, including mixing back designs). These few ideas are actually a few hundred, if you flesh them out. These are all my own thoughts on the matter, given freely. Happy creating! And make sure that you have a good story to go with your effects!.. or at least a good deal of time misdirection (delay the reveal and incorporate a good amount of 'process' to separate the force itself from the effect). The force(s) should be over and done with, and then the lion's share of the time should be spent on the 'trick'. |
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StreetWitch New user Dayton, Ohio 64 Posts |
Thanks. This is very helpful!
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts |
Thought of another one today...
You will need an analog watch or clock and enough time to finish the reveal before the the minute hand passes the 12, 3, 6 or 9. I would have the spectator shuffle. Take the cards and spread the faces to show that it's a good shuffle and Hofzinser Spread Cull the force card (more on that in a minute) to prep for the force of your choosing. You can skip all of that and just secure the Target card in secret if you wish (but the clock is ticking!!!). Reveal: after the selection, explain that a new deck has the suits in spades, diamonds, clubs, hearts order. Take your watch off and show that each suit could be represented in order on the 4 quarters of the clock (12-3 is spades, 3-6 is diamonds, etc.). Show that the minute hand is in the X quarter/suit... And the hour is the Y hour. These pieces of information give the prediction (at the time of this post, the card would be 10 of Spades). Tell them that their selection was preordained in the fabric of time and space). We'll call this reveal... "The McFly Effect". I think I just came up with this. Please correct me if you have seen something like this before. |
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts |
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On May 20, 2017, cfirwin3 wrote: Much better if this uses their watch... and is followed by the card folded under it |
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hp Regular user 163 Posts |
A simple answer is that any good force is a good revelation too. That is, once Paula selects a card, go to Joanne and have her pick a card using another force using a line such as "Let's see if you can come close to finding Paula's card just by doing a random selection."
A more complex answer: pick up the book "The Living End" by J. G. Thompson, Jr. A quick internet search shows you can get a hard copy at Haine's House of Cards for $20, or a pdf at Lybrary.com for $7. (I have dealt pleasantly with both vendors.) Thompson has a lot of ways to reveal one or more cards, and I can say that anything by J. G. Thompson is great, although some effects may be slightly dated. Good luck! |
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts |
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On May 20, 2017, Rupert Pupkin wrote: We'll call yours "Biff's Revenge". |
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StreetWitch New user Dayton, Ohio 64 Posts |
Something I came up with after thinking more about it, is to force a short card or a crimp card. That way they can shuffle the deck before you force it and after you force it. Then you can reveal it easily by cutting it to the top, turning it upside down or anything else.
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Mr Salk Special user Tied to 568 Posts |
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On May 20, 2017, StreetWitch wrote: No sense in Forcing if you're going to Control.
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts |
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On May 22, 2017, Mr Salk wrote: It makes sense if you want to freely shuffle (or have the spectator freely shuffle) before revealing it, which is what StreetWitch said. |
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts |
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On May 22, 2017, Rupert Pupkin wrote: For the sake of argument, a force, by itself, allows you to do that. The fact that the card should be unknown, coupled with a spectator's shuffle must mean that the card is neither known nor is it controlled. A performer is completely free to look at the faces of the cards and cut openly wherever they choose. No covert action needed. The very act of forcing (controlling what will be selected) negates the need to control what WAS selected... there is no "heat" after the shuffle. As an aside, this is why I argue that (to a real spectator) an ACAAN, for example, can satisfy the 'rules' so long as the deck is 'shuffled' before the number is selected and the dealing is done... That order gives a ton of freedom, with respect to method. |
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts |
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On May 22, 2017, cfirwin3 wrote: I would rather not have to look through the cards before finding the lost selection. |
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orchid666 Special user u.k 626 Posts |
I agree that looking through the deck after forcing is kinda defeating the object. It smacks of a beginners Key card trick.
Card to impossible location is ok if the location isn't TOO impossible ( for example,the card is found in a bottle 20 feet away ) Spectators aren't as naive as they were in yaers past, and something like that would only suggest a duplicate card. Depending if you were to have a card selected, and used for another routine before the revelation, I would suggest stuff like David Regal's 'Exhibit A', Jay sankeys 'Paperclipped' or Bro johns ' Your signed card ' as a good starting point. Kneill X |
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts |
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On May 22, 2017, orchid666 wrote: Well there's a difference between looking at face up cards after a force and looking at face up cards after a spectator's shuffle. The first looks like a beginner's key card trick (many high caliber effects operate on that principle none the less)... but the second is totally benign. The performer can even say "now there's no way that I should know your selection". Some big names do this sort of schtick all the time. |
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts |
Yeah, it takes me less than a second to crimp. I'll opt for that.
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James F Inner circle Atlanta 1096 Posts |
Does anyone else think certain revelations hurt the fact that you're forcing? I see one of my favorite YouTube force a card and reveal it as tattooed on his body. Doesn't this scream force? It's so impossible that there is only one answer: a force.
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts |
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On May 23, 2017, James F wrote: Yep. http://www.geniimagazine.com/magicpedia/Too-Perfect_Theory Some well constructed ACAAN effects have suffered from their own rules in presentation... leaving spectators and magicians alike calling "stooge!". I think that one balance is to add enough passage of time and misdirection to allow for the spectator to assume that there is a difficult method at work... such that revealing something printed in ink (like a tattoo) may be better accepted if there 'could' have been a method and enough passage in time for the performer to get the work done. The worst presentation being: "Here select a card... BAM!!!!! I have a 'permanently' written prediction RIGHT HERE!!!" |
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marc_carrion Special user 639 Posts |
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On May 23, 2017, James F wrote: I can think of another possibility... 52 tattoos well... maybe not... but with a Al-Koran, you may only need 6 to 10 tattoos and the selection will be fair j/k... I agree with you... I don't like those tattoos revelations |
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