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EagerlyLearning New user 93 Posts 
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I have a couple of questions regarding this shuffle.
The literature, such as Card College, recommends keeping the pinkies in contact with the table at all times during this shuffle, to make it look relaxed and and natural. But I find that I have a tendency to lift/twist my wrists too much, gripping the cards too much from above, which makes the shuffle look more strained. It should be more like a side-grip on the halves, yes? But is it normal also to keep the wrists constantly in contact with the table? Also, is it common to put your elbows on the table, or more common to keep them outside the table? I was also wondering about the same thing regarding running cuts, and the false one - up the ladder. You have to lift the hands a little above the table during this? |
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SimonCard Special user 601 Posts
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I had the same questions before.
I don't believe there is a standard to the questions you asked. It's absolutely fine to either grip the cards at inner or outer ends or either setting your wrists on the table or suspending them. Please watch Forte's GPS and 52 and also how Jason England handles cards if there was any standard. They constantly suspend their wrists and elbows. |
Mike Powers Inner circle Midwest 2986 Posts
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Steve Reynolds' DVD "Z" has his work on the Zarrow shuffle. But much of the time is spent teaching how to do a tabled riffle shuffle "properly." You might find this DVD useful in your quest.
Mike
Mike Powers
http://www.mallofmagic.com |
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts
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Probably the best answer for anyone on this is going to be personal and closely related to the various types of 'false' shuffles that one uses.
For me, I settled on a mid section grip with my little finger probably touching the table most of the time. This position gives a moderate balance of coverage and openness that is fitting for nearly all of my false shuffles. My goal was to make all of my shuffles (false and legit) look nearly the same. Often times, teachers will say that you should make the bogus thing look as much like the real thing as you can... therefore, it is essential to do the real thing "properly". But I think that there is more of a balancing act to help make the real stuff blend in with the unavoidable 'covers' of the false renditions. The most universal comment that I have heard, though, is that riffling should be done quite lightly, with as little bend as possible... usually riffling only the inside corners. There is a mildly hilarious moment in Martin Nash's "Infinity and Beyond" video, during the performance section where the spectator is shuffling and he jokes something to the effect of "I haven't seen someone shuffle like that in a long time! You're likely to be hanged for shuffling like that!". He is so obviously, nervously, trying to get the spectator to take it easy on the cards... for good reason. 
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failed_drummer Veteran user 314 Posts
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Ultimately, it will come down to what's natural for you, but I'd highly recommend reading Expert at the Card Table and doing exactly as described. Although the description may be a bit verbose and/or strange initially, it covers all the important aspects and describes a very neat, efficient and elegant shuffle. The key (to the whole book, really) is to try to understand not only what is being described, but why as well.
Personally, it slightly varies depending on how far along the outside edge my fingers are; if they are at the very inner conner, normally only my middle finger is on the edge, with the others curled on top of the deck, thumbs at the inner corner of the inside edge, wrists and forearms resting lightly on the table; if they are in the middle of the outside edge, all my fingers are on the outer edge, thumbs in the middle of the inner edge, slightly further in than than the fingers, wrists and forearms resting lightly on the table, or maybe slightly hovering, depending on table height; and if they are at the very outer corner, only my middle and third fingers are on the outer edge, thumbs on the inner outside corner, wrists and forearms about 1.5-2 inches off table, depending on table height. For cuts and squaring, my fingers are normally just short of vertical, kind of arching over the deck, so my wrists would be about 3-4 inches off the table. In general, I try not to chicken-wing my elbows out, mostly just as a style thing, but keeping them too close to the body can affect the movements and look just as weird. |
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GreenKnight33 Regular user 151 Posts
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A second vote for Z. Super thorough, teaches good habits, and you'll learn the Zarrow!
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EagerlyLearning New user 93 Posts
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Thx you for your answers. It was very helpful. I think I might have been influenced too much by watching myself in a small mirror, only showing the hands. You get a somewhat different impression when you see the whole body/person. I will however, try to keep my pinkes in the table, as Giobbi says, because I like the appearance of my hands when doing this.
I also will check out the Reynolds DVD. It seems that both Reynolds and Gary Plants have dvd's on the zarrow-shuffle, and both are highhly regarded. I already have Jason England's download on the subject. However, so far I'm no great fan of the zarrow-shuffle. It almost always looks a bit fishy to me. I sometimes wonder if it looks more natural to push the top "cover" cards above the middle packet, rather than to push the middle packet in & under the cover cards. Or at least both hands should move, to strengthen the illusion? |
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts
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Quote:
On May 27, 2017, EagerlyLearning wrote: Reynolds will make you a believer. Plants... not so much. |
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Magic-Daniel Inner circle Denmark 1328 Posts
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Quote:
On May 27, 2017, Rupert Pupkin wrote: .....and Shane Cobalt works will make you a believer |
Poof-Daddy Inner circle Considering Stopping At Exactly 5313 Posts
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There is always differences when others out "their work" on a move like the Zarrow. There is a pretty good download on Vanishing Inc called "Doug Edwards - On the Zarrow Shuffle" he was a freind of Herb Zarrows and shows some tweaks that Herb taught him. I'm not saying it's any better than the other vids, just different.
As for regular shuffles. You have to do what you are comfortable with. You don't need to force an opinion upon yourself. Nothing at all against Giobbi, but that is his opinion. (Most of which are sound) but shuffles and deals are done very differently in different parts of the world. Even different parts of a country. Most laymen I know do either a sloppy overhand or a sloppy tables riffle. You would never see a Vegas Dealer do either like that. Any poker game I have played in Nevada has been more of a "hand wash" type shuffle on the table or an auto shuffle/randomizer built into the table near the dealer. (Decks were changed back and forth each hand). Do what is most comfortable to you and adjust the sleight a bit if you feel it looks different than your normal shuffle.
Cancer Sux - It is time to find a Cure
Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased).  
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cfirwin3 Loyal user Rochester, New York 233 Posts
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In short... If your shuffle looks natural and works... It is a good shuffle, in spite of what you read or see from a variety of differing opinions.
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EagerlyLearning New user 93 Posts
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Actually I just found this zarrow shuffle from youtube, that I think looks very good. One of the best I've seen. Maybe the only thing that is missing is more resistance when the cards go together.
What do you think? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3I387JoYaU |
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Tabled riffle shuffle, position of wrists and elbows (0 Likes) | |
Posted: May 21, 2017 06:39 pm 
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