The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » How do you stop the spectator from interjecting in 3 card monte (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

magicstudent8416
View Profile
Regular user
164 Posts

Profile of magicstudent8416
I have been following the patter of 3 card month where you go through the routine as if you had shown it to someone else earlier and you are just recounting the tale and saying 'he thought it was on the bottom but he was wrong' etc.

I had been practicing at home and I got to practice it out at a club last night. The magical parts were working good but I found that the spectator kept saying 'I think it is in the middle/wherever'. Since this is very reliant on the order of the cards how do you deal with that.

I think I could avoid it by being more clear that I am recounting a tale from earlier because I was by no means clear on that last night; as I said first try. I will try prefacing it more strongly with 'I showed this to someone earlier' and steam ahead.

I have been thinking that maybe it would be possible to adapt it for spectator input but I don't want to deviate from the script yet until I have tried it the original way and got it down properly. In the past I would often been trying to 'refine' things before I had even practiced them live and would just end up confused and second guessing myself. I think now it is better to use the tried and true ones because I can have confidence that the material is good then and it is just my delivery that needs work.

Thoughts?
Mike Powers
View Profile
Inner circle
Midwest
2486 Posts

Profile of Mike Powers
If your presentation is basically a story you're telling about a street hustler or something like that, I'd just ignore spectator comments and tell the story. They haven't been invited to guess where the card is, right. You can say things like, "Wait. You'll get your turn in a minute." Actually they won't but hopefully they'll stop interrupting you.

If you let them guess, you'll need to be ready for anything that can happen. That's tough.

Mike
DaveGripenwaldt
View Profile
Veteran user
314 Posts

Profile of DaveGripenwaldt
You are in good company...Vernon often used the third-party story approach so you are not making your audience be the ones you are the suckers.

First of all it may just be that more clear ground rules or better audience management would fix the problem and that's probably the best solution. That said, though, it may be with a little forethought you can be ready to weave the spectators guesses into the story without derailing it.

For example, if you have laid down the cards and the spectator blurts out where he thinks it is, he will be either right or wrong. If he's wrong, all the better because you can say, "I know, right? That's just what x chose...and he lost his money.."

If the spectator is right, you could say, a couple of things...one is, "Wow, you pay more attention that x, because he thought this was the queen and lost all his money.." and just keep going.

Or you might say (if the routine has a place for it), "Bob here is playing the part of the shill...that's the guy who's in on the con. He knows where the card is and looks like he wins the money and makes people think they can win. Don't say anything this time Bob, and I'll show you what happens next..." and go into a "guess wrong" move.

A little thought before hand might give you the confidence to not let a situation like that throw you.
Poof-Daddy
View Profile
Inner circle
Riding the Cancer Recovery Coaster into
3576 Posts

Profile of Poof-Daddy
Good advice so far (from two very good sources). I have to just agree that audience management really is the main key here. Another thing you will find following Dave's advice - "that's what I thought too and I was wrong too" - after they are wrong enough, they tend to shut up (even if you are taking out a little of the sting by saying you did too). Smile

Another thing I do when I get someone who is a little over eager to interject is to just keep eye contact with other spectators and keep telling my story like he didn't say a word. Often, the group will just say something like "Dan, Shut up and let him tell his story". That is when you know you are really doing well connecting with the "group". They WANT to hear your story and are engaged by it. Rehearsing the story and making it "real" (in your head) makes it more believable and intriguing.

I have however, early on in my career, got tired of one of "those guys" and told him if he is gonna guess, he needs to put the cash on the table. He threw down a $20 and I showed him he was wrong. I then told him I would not take his money if he would let me finish my story and he agreed (after a little ribbing from his friends) a couple throws later he just couldn't help himself. He tossed out his $20 (on the real money card) so I simply did a Mexican turnover and took his money. I winked at his wife (she knew I wouldn't keep it) but she kept him in line for the rest of the evening. She also later insisted I keep the $20 as a tip. --- Now, this was not a usual situation with total strangers. this was at a Bar / Restaurant where I table hopped on Saturday evenings for the dinner crowd and often stuck around to do some extra walk around for the later bar crowd. So, even though I didn't "Know them personally" they all knew who I was and what I did there. Most importantly, they knew I did routines like this, shells, endless chain and even watch steals as entertainment only.

My mentor in magic was a real deal mechanic the first part of his life and taught me a lot about 3 card monte - both real and as a magic demo. I was crazy into monte variations, history, performance... I even have my own comedy monte routine I have never released. I still have two email accounts that are "monteman3card@xxxxx" <- yes, I went a little overboard but I love the simplicity of the "moves" taking people for such a downward spiral (in real situations).
www.shadowpest.wordpress.com <~~my cancer story



Don't spend so much time trying not to die that you forget how to live - H's wife to H on CSI Miami (paraphrased).






Smile Smile
Rupert Pupkin
View Profile
Elite user
407 Posts

Profile of Rupert Pupkin
Don't ignore them. Engage with them like a human being would.
MeetMagicMike
View Profile
Inner circle
Gainesville Fl
2550 Posts

Profile of MeetMagicMike
What routine are you actually doing? If you are doing the real street routine with the "hype" it really invites participation. It CAN be shown as entertainment rather than gambling but it might not be the best routine for that.

Routines like Color Monte, Skinner's Monte or Virginia City Shuffle are easier to present as entertainment as you describe. They can be done briskly which is one of keys to preventing spectators from interjecting.
Magic Mike

MeetMagicMike.com



I took the Pledge
Mike Powers
View Profile
Inner circle
Midwest
2486 Posts

Profile of Mike Powers
I think Rupert and Dave are right. Engage. Ignoring was a bad idea. Dave's specific advice RE: bringing the spec into the story appeals to me in this regard.

Mike
MeetMagicMike
View Profile
Inner circle
Gainesville Fl
2550 Posts

Profile of MeetMagicMike
Mike, I don't think ignore was a bad idea in the context you gave it. If I'm performing, for instance, Darwin Ortiz's Jumping Gemini I'm doing it briskly and telling a story. It works that way. No one interrupts because I know how to perform it but if they did I might ignore that comment. You don't really ignore your audience you pay close attention to them and it may be appropriate to let a comment pass without changing the pace of your routine.
Magic Mike

MeetMagicMike.com



I took the Pledge
fonda57
View Profile
Inner circle
chicago
2542 Posts

Profile of fonda57
Practice a hell of a lot, do it in your sleep and if a spectator interjects you can deal with it and continue.
Jack Carpenter's is the one I do.

I agree with Rupert--engage them. Be engaging.
KentuckySlim
View Profile
New user
34 Posts

Profile of KentuckySlim
The School for Scoundrels Notes on the Three Card Monte, delves into this issue quite a bit and talks about some of the difficulties of presenting the monte to an audience (specifically in the final essay: The Meaning for Magic). It's a really fantastic resource if you don't already have it - filled with tons of history and a veritable encyclopedia of moves.
The three card gold routine, performed here by Chef Anton - addresses some of these concerns (and presents some excellent ideas on how to demo the street hustle for an audience). It wouldn't be too hard to adapt a lot of these techniques to a story based approach.
There are also a number of moves (similar to the Mexican turnover) that will allow you to switch out the money card in the event they guess right - on the street they'd never be used to swap out the card once a bet is down, but instead to show someone who was afraid to bet that they would've in fact been right. However in a Magic setting they're nice to have as a backup.

I'm personally a big fan of either using those sort of interjections (when they're wrong) to enhance the story or demo - as DaveGripenwaldt and Poof-Daddy suggest above - or defusing the situation by making them my temporary "shill" if they happen to guess right. Doing something like that allows you to get them on your side and, most importantly, keep control of the situation.
KentuckySlim
View Profile
New user
34 Posts

Profile of KentuckySlim
You know in re-reading your post, it sounds like you might be doing a version of color monte, skinner's monte, or something similar (just from where you mention it being "on the bottom"). If that is the case, then some of my above advice isn't going to work for you.
A lot of it is going depend on what exactly your presentation is (a video or at least knowing what version you're performing would certainly help). However, basically for any version the key is audience management - as stated elsewhere. I've found that the secret to maintaining control of an audience is through confidence. No matter what you're doing, or how good you get there's always the possibility of encountering a heckler or a just plain difficult audience member who might decide to throw a random wrench into your show.

If you can tackle those unexpected situations with confidence, you can maintain control of the situation. Always respond in character and act like them speaking up is something you were almost expecting. If you can work their "guess" into your story (like some of the above examples suggest) great. Otherwise simple lines like "be patient we'll play for money in a moment and then you can guess all you want..." Or "you've clearly lost money at (or just "played") this game before..." or "I bet my friend wishes he had eyes like you, but He thought it was here..." or anything similar that briefly acknowledges that you heard them, but allows you to dive right back into your presentation and makes it clear that you plan to finish what you're doing.
When you perform you're in control, just because someone guesses doesn't mean you have to show them if they're right or wrong.

Personally when I do something like color monte, I always make the story about me and how I got taken in by this swindle. This makes it a lot less likely that someone is going to chime in with a random guess. I do still think that regardless of which version of the monte you do, being able to incorporate random audience interjections into your routine will only make it stronger. Either by bringing them over to your side by making them a "shill" if they're right (or just persistent) or by commiserating with them if they're wrong by remarking how you (or your friend) thought the same thing.

However, sometimes things will happen that will just completely kill a routine:
I've been caught out by a little kid before. He just flat out said that he knew that trick and told the table about the green $14 dollar card I was hiding as soon as I brought out the cards. I just calmly put them away, complimented the little devil and made him my official assistant for the next (and only) trick I did for that table. Had them give him a big round of applause at the end and then stayed as far away from him as possible for the rest of the night. Anything can happen in a live performance and you just have to learn to roll with it.
ULockJustice
View Profile
Regular user
Columbus, OH
124 Posts

Profile of ULockJustice
I don't do three card monte exactly, the routine I do is "Invisible" Three Card Monte, but it's in the context of teaching someone how to steal money from other people. It involves specific instructions on what to do when as well as guides them towards what feels like a free choice, but actually facilitates the magic to happen.

A teaching presentation will give you a similar environment that a story would, but may feel more interactive. It may also afford you opportunities to leave your script for a moment for some genuine interaction before moving forward with what you want to do. I will admit that my teaching presentation involves cards visually appearing and vanishing, so it's just a thin veil, but you could adapt it to a normal three card monte with effort.
"I told you. I'm very very good."
magicstudent8416
View Profile
Regular user
164 Posts

Profile of magicstudent8416
Thanks for all the replies. this is the one Im doing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJv44-Ghj_Y

I have been practicing it and I am getting an idea of how to work it now and I am also getting more confident with it.

Since there are only 3 cards if they interject, as alluded to above, there are only two variations. After I had an interjector last night I thought of a way to incorporate their comments while still sticking to the script.

If they say different to what the next turn was going to be I am thinking to say 'Most people say it's on the top' and turn it over as normal. Then you simply have to say 'You said the middle but it's not there either...it's actually on the bottom'. Since there are only two options you don't have to delay their guess for long so I think it turns out fine.

I am currently building my cache of tricks which I can do like this standing up since I practice mostly in clubs. There are seated areas and I have got some for those but having a few strong standing up ones I think increases your versatility alot. I am working on twisting the aces now. I like bizarre twist too but it would have to go at the end of a string of aces routines wouldnt it since the different ace would get in the way of these other routines.
KentuckySlim
View Profile
New user
34 Posts

Profile of KentuckySlim
Oooph. That guy has a really dreadful presentation for a great trick (one of the many reasons why I dislike YouTube tutorials... you get what you pay for). He's practically begging people to guess.
FYI, I suggest you edit/remove your last post - and repost the content sans the link to the video since it violates the rules regarding exposure here.

If you look at this presentation of the original effect Color Monte you'll notice that the magician is telling a story about how he got fooled. Notice all the "I" statements. This is what I do as well with this trick and while it seems like a simple difference, it should immediately help limit random interjections. I encourage you to try it!

Good luck and keep practicing.
magicstudent8416
View Profile
Regular user
164 Posts

Profile of magicstudent8416
Perhaps the guy in the video is only used to doing tutorial videos at home and not practicing to a real audience Smile

I don't seem to be able to edit the post before with the link so a mod is free to do so if they wish.
trickbooks
View Profile
New user
14 Posts

Profile of trickbooks
I hope this is not too off-topic, but I wanted to mention a pair of monte-like effects I designed that have just been released by Ronjo.com: "Death at Hand" and "A Fool for You." They are hybrid monte effects using Tarot cards. The routines are such that I don't think the same problems would present themselves. The routines are structured around spectator participation, and even when the spectator takes unexpected guesses, you can change the presentation to account for that. The effects are also just a lot of fun. You can read more about them here:

http://shop.ronjo.com/ronjo-death-at-han......902.html

http://shop.ronjo.com/ronjo-fool-for-you-by-gary-brown.html


Enjoy!

Gary
FalseDeal
View Profile
New user
40 Posts

Profile of FalseDeal
Quote:
On Jun 9, 2017, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Don't ignore them. Engage with them like a human being would.


You say that as if Magicians understand proper social etiquette? I would wager most people BECAME Magicians because they CAN'T engage with people any other way (having been to my fair share of conventions over the last 25 years). How else does someone think 'The Web' is a good idea?
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » How do you stop the spectator from interjecting in 3 card monte (7 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2017 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.18 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL