My mistake too -- but all is good now.

Carlyle,


Thanks for the encouragement and ideas. I have all five volumes of Card College and will look up what he says about the Center DL. If you have a moment sometime, could you let me know where Giobbi describes the switch during a spread?



There's so much I want to learn!



Bob

No worries.

No, what she was referring to is a Strike from the back rather than the sides. The strike action itself is what I would consider unnatural, not whichever side you choose to lift from. Although according to Vernon, Leipzig considered a strike from the left side of the deck to be much better than the traditional right side. (Traditional, in this instance, being the right-handed approach.)

I gotcha. Well, for me, picking up a card from the back just looks unnatural. I never turn cards over like that. But I suppose it depends on the person performing. I flip over single cards just like a strike from the right side so that looks natural for me.

Bob G - it's called (rather soberly) the "Double Turnover from a Spread in the Hands", volume 5, page 1129. There are variations of this, where the double is turned over with no initial display of the single. I think I read one in a J. K. Hartman book ("Card Dodgery" I think). Hope it helps.

Carlyle, thanks for the references. And willmagicman, thanks to you for the thick/short card ideas -- might be a good way to do DL tricks before fully confident in one's DL.

This seems like a good moment to thank everyone who's contributed to this thread. I'm really touched by people's kindness and generosity, both in the thread and in associated PM's. I've tried out many of people's ideas (and will try the others eventually -- can't do 'em all at once!) and am already feeling more confident that, with enough practice, I'll be able to develop a small collection of really smooth DL's. If I get advanced enough in magic in the future, I will certainly return the favor by helping new beginners.


Best Regards,


Bob

Hey Bob, It was a pleasure to join your topic, and I think you had some amazing responses from clever people kind enough to share and help. My suggestion about the short card and the thick card are probably the worst pieces of advice you've had on here Lol. But they do have their applications, and are surefire.I pretty much have a short card in the deck at all times anyway, so I might as well put it to good use. I use them a lot because I'm a man who likes to take as little risk as possible, and I even set up my routine in such a way that these aforementioned aids are all that I need when it comes to the dreaded double lift time.. I wish you well with all your future DL methods.
Will.

Thanks so much, Will. Like you, I'm risk-averse. For that reason I'm working hard on the DL's and want to perfect them as well as I can before I do any performances with them. (In reality the stakes are low -- we're not talking about nuclear proliferation, here -- but still...) And that's why I lilked your short- and thick-card ideas. By the way, what *is* a thick card, and how do you use it? Answering that question may be exposure; if so, feel free to PM me if you feel like taking the time to answer.


The responses I received were indeed amazing, and I'm happily working on everyone's suggestions.


Regards,


Bob

Nice one Bob. I've PM'd you.
Will.

I used a thick card for a while Bob G, especially to perform the 2 card monte routine (popularised by David Blaine many years ago, though the tricks 'proper' name is actually something else I believe). Anyway, as you may know, the trick require a triple lift. Being also risk averse(!), I used to have a thick card like Willmagicman. Nowadays, just like when I do a double lift, I just use misdirection before I do a 'get ready' with my thumb at the rear (but try to ensure the actual turn over naturally mimicks a 'real' single card turnover).
Here's a tip Bob - why don't you use the thick card ruse for a while to gain confidence... given there is little risk you're more likely to actually perform it to people. And when you do this in turn, will give you more confidence!.. Then you'll branch out into doing DL's (& Tripples) without a thick card. Those of us who are risk averse are also perfectionists and we just don't want to mess up... which inhibits having a go. My advice - heretical as it may sound to some - is go and practice a little bit less and go and perform a little bit more. This is only to you though because you have demonstrated time and commitment and serious thinking to what you do. I wouldn't advise anyone else to just pick up a pack of cards and after 2 minutes to start inflicting their magic upon the world...
Good luck!

Thanks for your kind words, Mr. Smiles. You're right about my being a perfectionist, too. Too much of that, as you suggest, can keep a person from performing at all.


Funny thing is, as a math prof, I'm always telling my students to just *try* things. To make progress you have to have the attitude that it's okay if you mess up, you won't let that stop you . Clearly I'm not taking my own advice when it comes to magic! -- though in math I've never been afraid to just play around and see what happens. Go figure.


Anyway, I appreciate your advice. I'll give it a try. I have a list of tricks I'd like to try that require a DL, so I'll pick one of them to learn and try the thick card idea. My DL's are getting better, too, so that will help.


Best Regards,


Bob

Bob, another alternative to a purely mechanical DL is to use Science Friction spray. You can spray it on the back of one card, and it let's you do flawless doubles. Check YouTube for videos on SF spray to see some of what it can do for you. Just something else to consider.

Nice to hear from you, Steve. I guess you'd spray the back of the top card?


By the way, somewhere I saw an idea for the Invisible Deck that appealed to me, though I haven't tried it yet: Use *crayon* instead of roughing spray. Apparently the card's coating keeps the crayon from being visible, especially if you use white crayon.


I've been focusing mostly on the strike double, occasionaly throwing in other doubles to keep them from fading in my mind. It's going pretty well.

Glad things are moving along for you! As for SF, it's quite a versatile product. Depending on the trick and the handling, you might spray the face of one card or the back of another. A lot of options there.

Again, congrats on your progress!

Hi Bob,
You see, it takes one to know one! (You're a perfectionist). And you're right... my response to your post was essentially to say that this is keeping you from performing. To break the vicious circle of focusing on technique but busting it/your magic open upon the lay public too infrequently, there may be something of a confidence issue.
I totally 'get' your situation:
I lectured in a world top 200 university for 20 years. ..Lecture theatres with 200+ students in them sometimes (this is somewhat rarer here in the Uk than in the US), and I didn't start performing enough for 10 years later than I should have done. It was confidence. Oddly (given my job). So, given where you say "I'm always telling my students to just *try* things" - as I did - it's really a case of 'physician heal thyself'.
Bust out of the inner inhibition & have a go.
Confidence breeds confidence. Successfully delivering a routine with a DL, propels you further forward to do more, with more ensuing success, resulting in more confidence & more performances. The virtuous cycle syndrome.

I note you're going to try the thick card idea. It's pretty much a failsafe method, a bit like forcing a 7D with an all-the-same deck of 7D! I honestly think performing a few times successfully to an 'audience' (of sorts, beyond immediately family etc) is going to do it for you... Then you'll be flying. You'll dump the thick card and be double lifting more than an Olympic weights athlete in training.

Another tip. Please forgive me if it sounds too much like basic advice (as stated I've noted you're a serious student of magic who thinks things through more than thoroughly): I believe that there's still likely to still be a bit of anxiety at work at the beginning. So when you've got your audience in front of you (even if its a one-on-oen) get your performing adrenalin and performing juices flowing at first with an easy self-worker that you enjoy performing and have put some presentational overlays of your own into (i.e structure/patter/pacing - make it 'your' self-worker etc). Again, this does wonders for confidence & is the fuel to take you through to the harder routines requiring a DL.

It's been great 'talking' to you... wish you success on this journey. It's hard for us university folk not to do something that is deeply ingrained.... i.e to 'overthink it' & instead to think a little bit less and to DO a little bit more. Btw, if we mess up a move, nobody dies. What's truely liberating is getting to the point where if you mess up or if someone says 'hey that was two cards' that you can carry on entirely unruffled & untroubled and if it's gone wrong to be able to seamlessly get yourself out of trouble. That's bliss. I'm fortunate to be there now. I could've been there 10 years earlier! Hope my little bit of help here on your thread helps you to get there a little bit sooner than you might have done. DON'T be like me. Get those DL's under your belt & get there sooner than I did. That'd be great if so.

*Such* a sweet and heartening post, Mr. S. I really appreciate your taking the time to give me such detailed advice. You know me far too well! It was years before I could go into a classroom without feeling unreasonably nervous. (I'm down to normal pre-performance stage-fright at this point.)


I can actually imagine a three-trick mini-show that would more or less be the sort of thing you suggest:


First, I've been working on Trosts's 8-card brainwave, which is short and pretty close to self-working.


Second, an adaptation of Trost's Sub-Trunk Mystery, which is longer and more sleight-intensive ( pinky breaks and false cuts, but that's about it; no DL's). I've made my own "Arabian Nights" story that I'm pretty excited about, concerning a feisty 14-year-old girl who has to take a trip and gets into various troubles which her friend the Genii helps her out of (or tells her, "What do you mean, you don't need my help for *this*!"). I'm hoping this one will be one in a series of scrapes that she magically gets out of. (Hmmm... just realized, I must like Nick Trost!)


And then something simple using a DL; I'm thinking of a trick I found somewhere for free (offered by its creator) in which a stick figure on one card ("home") takes a trip and ends up on another card. It's called "Stick Figure Trip." Short and sweet, as I remember.


So as I write I'm thinking of making it my goal to be able to give a little show like that. First for my wife, then friends and colleagues who have the "right" attitude, i. e., who are willing to be entertained rather than feeling obligated to challenge me and figure out how the trick is done.


I'll start with the thick card for the DL and see how it goes from there.


I'm curious about one remark that you made: suppose someone does see two cards during a DL. Is it best to just continue the trick as if it hadn't happened? At the moment I don't have the resources (i. e., the sleights) that would allow me to cover up the mistake. I'd be interested in hearing from you and others about this.


Thanks again; I'm really touched.


Bob

P. S.: I just looked up "Stick Figure Trip," and it's actually called "Sticky Trick," by Matthew Leatherbarrow. It's much more sleight-heavy than I'd remembered, including a triple lift and the twirl change, among others. What I really need for this little "confidence-gaining" show is a short trick that has maybe at most one sleight besides a DL. I'll look through my files, but I'd also welcome any suggestions, with sources if possible. There's Chicago Opener, of course, which I'd love to perform, but that feels a bit intimidating. Maybe it shouldn't at this point...

Hi Bob, you're more than welcome.
Yes, I suffered from lecture nerves too, though that was long ago, then I got it with magic instead! Again I've much moved forward from this too. (You're not a long lost twin by any chance are you?!)
Anyway, your proposed set sounds perfect. 8 card brainwave is pretty much sleightless & self-working. Fabulous choice, go for it.

I don't know "Stick Figure Trip," but I DO know something that is very similar that I've been doing for years. Its called 'Mr Stickman' from 'The Richard Sanders Show' volume 2. I notice you say your routine has more sleights than you originally thought. This routine only has a DL and a KM move - the latter I think is easier than what you may be proposing to deal with i.e no triple & twirl move. (If you don't know it, the KM is not tough to get down, easier than a DL or a Triple!)

I really recommend this dvd and volume 1 & 3. Some magicians on magiccafe raved about his 'Stickman 4' on volume 3 but I beg to differ & think the simpler Mr Stickman is better as well as easier. Stickman 4 gilds the lily... over-elaborate in my view. Anyway its certainly much harder & multi-phased than Mr Stickman. It could well be very suitable for you. The dvd set is great as well - the volumes are sold individually. I also recommend the 3 volume 'The Very Best of Jay Sankey' (loads of great, easy card tricks with just a DL or other easy moves; other easy tricks too. Virtually only his coin work is hard on this set). Another great set that is technically easy to therefore allow concentration on performance (& therefore results in less nerves/anxiety is the very wonderful Daryl 'Fooler Doolers', 3 volumes. Volume 3 is the best in my humble opinion & I used this volume much more than the others, but they are all good.

I'll respond next time about if/when they say 'hey that's 2 cards', I do have strategies for that. Let's save it for another post or a PM, happy to help.

Hi again, Mr. S.,


Lots to respond to here, but for now let me just ask whether the performance referenced below is the "Mr Stickman" you have in mind? It's a charming trick charmingly presented, but I have to wonder: how many DL's are there? I saw a bunch of times when a DL was possible, and then there's the bit where he scrapes the stickman off the card altogether... If the trick involves 1 DL + 1KM and no color-changes then I'm up for this experiment.


The performance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NF-SJaU7IUY .



Bob