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Marc O Special user The Netherlands 755 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2017, IAIN wrote: I use the "Thomas and Rainer stuff" together with businesscards. I take a businesscard out of a case, put it on top of the case and hand it to them. Now they have something to write on. (the case I use has a flat writingside on the top and bottom). After that leave the card with them and take the case back. Open up the case (in a natural way so that they can see a blank businesscard on top) take out a card and also use the case as a writing surface. Different material/routine but for me a justifcation to go back to the case. p.s. sorry for hijacking this thread. |
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ManchurianMan83 Veteran user United Kingdom 305 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2017, Rob.m wrote: It's vital IMO that they see that you are not doing anything to the stack. All I have to go on is the demo in the trailer that showed Peter opening the case, somewhat shielding the cards from the participant. At that point, there's nothing stopping Peter from simply lifting a chunk of cards up and peeking their actual drawing as he removes a card. I know that's NOT the method but if they can't SEE what you are doing then that idea is not defused. Is it possible to open the case, peek, and have them remove a card for you.... or failing that, remove the whole stack after (intact) and openly take the top card before putting them back in. Something to clearly and openly show at no point am I tampering with THEIR card. The issue is with Mentalism it's of umost importance with any peek method that it's as clear as possible no peek has occured. The moment you have an action where the spectator can't see WHAT you're looking at, especially when that area you're looking at INCLUDES their drawing, it's not great IMO. Wallets are fine because you normally isolate their drawing elsewhere (a pocket or something inside)... But here, they put their drawing among the same business cards you are 'secretly' removing one from. That has to be SOOO transparent or else suspicions get raised. Methods like Hollow by looch for example, when their card is placed among the stack, you OPENLY show removing one card from the top (nowhere near the middle) and they see the business cards at all times while they are in your hand. The moment you guard them, cover them or turn your back slightly, how else is your spectator going to think than 'whats going on?', no matter how clever the real method is. |
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reignofsound Inner circle Glasgow, UK 2198 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2017, ManchurianMan83 wrote: Nail on the head. Expensive item and can be achieved without the need for the prop. I am having great success with Morgan Strebler's - Mind Invasion, which just uses 1 business card. |
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tomd Special user 747 Posts |
If there are methods which don't require a "reopening" to peek (which there are many), then the action for "reopening" the case has to have the cards visible like others are saying.. otherwise the mechanism for peeking is inferior inherently I would have thought.
Justification isn't the issue.. going back to the case to grab a card to duplicate the image or word isn't going to be questioned (unless they can't see for themselves that's what your doing). The ability to examine the case and cards after is pointless, it will do nothing to subside the initial feeling the spectator has that the case or cards are part of the problem. And if they want to examine, you've failed already. This product might impress magicians because the base knowledge we have expands that of a muggle, and this case probably surpasses most of the knowledge "in the know" people have, making it intriguing and attractive. That doesn't mean when performing for someone who is clueless, they won't suspect anything.. quite the opposite, they have no methods to rule out, anything is possible, and IF there is covering of cards.. well that's the most obvious moment for anyone sceptical. A talented pro probably won't have this problem, he/she probably won't worry about examination because he/she is skilled enough to wade away any suspicions, regardless of the re opening of the case. But I'm going to go ahead and assume that any talented pro will probably have an arsenal of peek/impression devices, with years of experience with certain ones, and has a very high standard to meet for a newer device to take over.. just my thoughts.. I would love to be proven wrong, good luck with the product. |
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts |
End of the day, I feel like the SUC method still is the best method for wallet/card case peeks. It's just clean, streamlined, and people just don't automatically suspect that your wallet has that special quality to it.
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ManchurianMan83 Veteran user United Kingdom 305 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2017, tomd wrote: Exactly my thoughts. While I've no doubt the method is clever, and there is a part of me that's intrigued by what is really going on and wanting to know how clever it truly is (purely from a 'new toy/gadget' perspective), the problem with this stems from the fact that presentationally you're covering the cards as you remove one. As Tom quite correctly stated, if you're not systematically ruling out possible methods, participants will have their own. Be a shame to spend a chunk of money on a cool piece of kit only for spectators to immediately have suspicions (incorrectly or not is irrelevant) as to how you might have achieved the end result, due to a moment of suspicious handling. |
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magicgerry06 Regular user FRANCE 132 Posts |
I can see an advantage for this prop if it can be used for multiple peeks .
Is it possible? |
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Yuan Moons Veteran user 348 Posts |
Unless it's obvious you are not touching the cards it will look like you are deadcut. Maybe close up it is clear that's not happening...
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AceFace Veteran user Ponta delgarda Azores 348 Posts |
I have seen the workings of this and I think it's entirely possible that once you have got your peek you can invite your spectator to remove a business card for you...if it is all done in one nice smooth motion I don't think the spectator will suspect anything.....I did purchase this last night and I must admit when the after show demo finished I also had the thought about reopening the case was a bit unusual.. The angles on this are fantastic so it would be possible for you to take out a card clearly showing the spectator that you are only removing the top card... I think this will be a worker but only time will tell
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kissdadookie Inner circle 4275 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2017, AceFace wrote: But what is the motivation for opening the case a second time? This is the weak point of peeks in cases/wallets where you have to re-open to get your peek IMO. You can of course work around it but there's just smoother and cleaner methods such as the SUC method so I could never really justify going with a method I feel is inferior to the SUC method or even classic coin envelope methods (though coin envelope methods never made sense to me in casual situations so IMO there's a small situational limit to when and where they can/should be used). |
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Colin (C.J.) Special user 564 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2017, IAIN wrote: This. |
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Jared Inner circle Rhode Island, USA 1573 Posts |
It feels a little "movey" for my taste. While I do like the idea of using a business card case, "The business" by Romanos and Alakazam seems a tad more stealth and motivated because you invite the spectator to place his card into the case while removing a card (at the same time) to write on. The peek happens as you casually move the case aside or by placing it under the spectators hand etc. Moreover, if the spectator peers inside the case it looks exactly as it should provided that you have the special something or correct table surface underneath. The business is also quite excellent for performing Larry Becker's Sneak Thief with business cards.
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AceFace Veteran user Ponta delgarda Azores 348 Posts |
The case is perfectly justified because it's used for carrying your business cards....as for going back into the case to get a card, I think it's all about timing and not making a big deal out of it...I have forgotten to remove items from my wallet in the past when performing this type of effect and I can honestly say nobody has ever questioned me for returning to my wallet to retrieve the item I forgot to remove...as magicians we do over think things sometimes... I certainly wouldn't get them to place their card into the case, close it then immediately open it and take out another card. after a couple of minutes of talking I don't think opening the case again to take out a card for you to do your duplicate drawing or whatever will be suspicious you just have to make it look nonchalant and natural
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Mr. Mindbender Inner circle 1566 Posts |
I'm not justifying the prop - in fact, between my Jaks and Paranormal wallets, I'm pretty well covered, but in terms of motivating going back to get another card, that's only limited by your imagination. One way, for example, is that after the cards have been put in the case, you try to read their mind, but have some difficulty. So you go back to the case (get your peek), remove a second card, and ask the participant to write out their name on the card. You then do a basic hand writing analysis to learn more about them. Since you know the image, you can tailor the reading to fit the image - for example...if they drew a tree, you could point out how the flowing nature of their signature indicates someone who has an affinity for the outdoors...etc.
After some targeted handwriting analysis, you tell them that based on what you just learned, here is want you think they drew -- and you draw the image on the same card as the hand writing. Anyway, just one idea to justify the action. I'm sure there are many more. |
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Jared Inner circle Rhode Island, USA 1573 Posts |
While I can certainly understand your argument about going back to the case (heck, I do it all the time when I use my Stealth Assassin wallet), I was mostly comparing the two Alakazam cases (Stealth case vs. The Business) to see which offers more versatility and the actions needed to get the peek.
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Daren Inner circle 2051 Posts |
Guys I'm sure in the real world this won't be noticed and questioned about going back to the case, it is justified in my opinion I can clearly see the performer take the top card of the stack and nothing looks odd
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TuneHV Inner circle New York 2062 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2017, Jared wrote: I prefer Stealth Case over The Business because, while the method for The Business is clever, I have overheard spectators say that I essentially must have used the case as a shiner to see their drawing in the reflection. While that's obviously not the method, its a legit point and turned me off from using it as the shiny metallic case essentially looks like a reflective mirror. |
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edwardowen93 New user 38 Posts |
I think this is AMAZING.
I csnt wait to start frying peoples minds with it. I watched the launch yesterday and it looks soo normal. So cool and if my guess is correct (usually is) then it's exactly what I've been looking for, I wouldn't use the dry wipe, that feels a little cheap to me, but I'll use this with my own b cards. A question.... does this work with tripple layered, moo business cards? (ones with colour running through the middle?) Thanks |
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Jared Inner circle Rhode Island, USA 1573 Posts |
Interesting comment David...But why wouldn't you simply ask the spectator to put his card in the case himself and close the lid? The Business can be performed totally hands-off with some minor audience management.
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TuneHV Inner circle New York 2062 Posts |
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On Jul 25, 2017, Jared wrote: I do perform it that way as you suggest, but that's how they choose to recall it anyway. But I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll keep the discussion around Stealth Case. |
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