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Max Hazy Special user 543 Posts |
Thank you for the insightful review, Drew... I can't wait to see what I can do with it!
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman "Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward" Jan Forster Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/ Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/ |
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Bietfriek Special user Bye, bye after 501 Posts |
Already got OG and the Gemini readings and have read some ideas from Reddevil in a Facebook group which I found creative.
Would like to know more about 777 but since it only seem to work in the English language I have to skip it for now. Really curious what Reddevil has come up with so placed my order for T.I.T.E.! |
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Jacob Smith Inner circle Columbus, OH 1871 Posts |
XX, -Jacob |
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RedDevil Inner circle Deep South 1315 Posts |
Hi, all. Books are going out as we speak to all customers...I sent out a link to the closed Facebook Group, and the room is already starting to fill up. Just call it a TITE Release Party!
Thanks to Jacob for his kind words and video help over the week. Jacob, you are one of the good guys, sir! If anyone else wants to join the Labor Day TITE Party, just visit my website at http://reddevilmentalism.blogspot.com Thanks, everyone, and I can't wait to hear your ideas over at the Facebook Page!
www.reddevilmentalism.com
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Jason Messina Elite user 424 Posts |
Just read through it once - I love the methodology!! and already have a full page of notes on how I would use this. This is an idea that you can collide with so many other ideas - and while there are a lot of great routines/ideas in the book, I've already come up with 2 much different ways I would use this. Classic plots can be completely enhanced with this technique.
This is one of the best things I've read all year and highly recommended to all serious students of mentalism. Great job RedDevil! Can't wait to practice and start using. |
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
There is only one thing you need to know about this : This is something you will actually use!
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RedDevil Inner circle Deep South 1315 Posts |
Jason and The Mac: Thank you, and it is always a pleasure to know that people take one of your creations and are pleased with it.
Thanks also to Drew for your very fair and extensive review. You were one of the minority who suspected the true method and purchased it anyways because you saw the value in what I have added. Thank you so much for your faith and later assistance with editing the book. With T.I.T.E. I have created a system with business cards for you that you can adapt to hundreds of routines of your own making. Once you learn the method, it may surprise many of you. If it does, I want you to remember how clean the performance looked on the demo! I took an "old" idea and packaged it so that you can take it on the road in your wallet and apply it to your own performance pieces. If you were "fooled" initially by the demo, I hope you see the value of the book you have purchased: I have taken an easy, age-old principle and turned it into a system for you that fooled people who already knew the old idea! For those of you who were able to deduce the "general" idea, I hope you have found the above, that I have built a way to use the principle more dependably and less transparently...even to people who know how such things are done! The best part, as Drew also noted, is that once you know the system, you can apply it to SO MANY PLOTS! Once you get your copy, join our Facebook Group! https://goo.gl/Dr1GJy
www.reddevilmentalism.com
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Max Hazy Special user 543 Posts |
I have mixed feelings about it.
First of all, the pros: I didn't see the demo, but if I had seem it I would probably be fooled even having played with similar aspects in methodology. Yes, it is very versatile. I disagree with Red Devil that this shouldn't be done with drunk people. You would be surprised how many times I tested the things I do in the worst possible conditions and drunk people is one of those conditions (even for situations where this would be bound to disaster, such as logic based effects or audience management), because drunk people is a situation I might have to face in a real gig (and yes, I think this can be done with drunk people, just not passed out or alcoholic coma people). I also don't think the set of 4 or 5 is necessarily ideal, you can definitely use more. This is a very smart approach to the method. Red devil have covered many details of the aspect and it's clear he played around with it many times for it to get where it is. The cons (to me): Nowadays I present myself through skills, not effects. That's why I gave up effects that don't fit my character (and it pains me, as I gave up some really cool effects). In other words, there are people who have seem me doing the same "effect" as far as 6 times and never say "I've seem this one already..." like I often see some local fellows hear where I live. In fact, there are people who actually ask me to "to that thing again" when they see me. So, one of my criteria to put something in my act (besides fitting my character) is how solid it is in terms of audience seeing it again. Unfortunately, that's not the case with TITE. This is solid, method wise, but wouldn't withstand such criteria imo. Also, from the description and reviews, I immediately thought about doing it through the phone as I have done with Proteus, but that's not the case either. There's also a "don't run if not being chased" aspect here that I don't think goes well with the "test conditions" tone of the premisse, but you can definitely get away with it. Further thoughts: To mention here what the name TITE or CAKE stands for would reveal nothing about methodology. I think it would actually be positive to be told what they stand for, but I won't say because nobody said. Maybe Red Devil think this would spoil the fun, I don't know. There's a point where Red mentions 3 approaches during an particular event. I think it would've been better that he advised what would be the best thing to do but he didn't. Maybe he think it's a matter of taste but one of those 3 things allows you to be correct OR get all you need at once... rather then being wrong and needing an extra step to go. Don't get me wrong, the best approach is covered, just not mentioned as the best approach and I don't think the worst approach should be even mentioned. But that's just an opinion. My final words is that this is great, versatile and a piece of cake. It just don't fit my personal criteria at this moment, but criteria changes over time, so I might go back to it, who knows. It was just my criteria that prevented me to jump in excitement with this one. I think new releases should be more direct in criteria for the purchasers to make a more informed decision. OG fits me much better but this will certainly be great to a lot of people. PS: I didn't find the facebook group.
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman "Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward" Jan Forster Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/ Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/ |
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
Max Hazy, my friend I know understand what you mean but let me give you my thoughts on some of the things you raised:
1. Look beyond the effects in the book to the underlying principle. You can use this as a catalyst to so many other things. Madison posted a great phase for bank night in the FB group 2. Its not meant to be repeatable to the same group immediately. You should cloak your work with multiple methods that look similar. Perhaps a version with marked cards after using version the TITE's secret. 3. I don't really care for the name. I would think "the devil's choice" would have been a better name but this is the right of the creator. It is the smallest of complaints 4. Keep it is a method you can rely on for something in the future. 5. Remember you are getting to know what someone has chosen before you turn around, without any fishing about the thing they chose. |
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Max Hazy Special user 543 Posts |
Mac, at no point I complained about the name, I just commented that saying what it stands for would actually be positive and not reveal the method at all as some people might think. That's why I included in further thoughts, not as it were a "con", just a thought. I do cloak my methods with other methods... but even my other methods in other effects follows my personal criteria. I don't see why I would add a method to an effect I do if it don't follow my criteria.
Also, our market is the only market where the purchaser don't know exactly what he is getting until he gets it so, I stand by what I said: new releases should at least be direct about the criteria for the purchasers to make a more informed decision. PS: The FB group is in the e-mail as Red Devil pointed me in PM. I was anxious to read it so I didn't see it.
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman "Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward" Jan Forster Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/ Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/ |
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The Mac Inner circle 1982 Posts |
I see what you meant about the name.
Yes, ours is a strange market where we buy with limited information. If you have a specific criteria that makes or breaks an effect for you perhaps you should have contacted Reddevil with your query via pm or email? Im sure he would have given you the data you required to make a more informed purchase in regards to your specific criteria. I am glad that despite it not meeting yiur current criteria, you still find value in your purchase. Take care Mac |
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The Duster Inner circle 1693 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 3, 2017, Max Hazy wrote: Yeah That's why I still haven't come off the fence [to buy this yet] I really like RedDevil - and am sure one day - in one of his sales will pick this up But it's hard for me to pull the trigger I see ppl mention DR [and I hate, hate, hate DR effects... I hate them] I know it may not matter for the effect [or only be an added bit] but still - argh Also I'm thinking about Green Neck System and it feels like these two effects may have some cross over [maybe not in method - I don't know?] but in what the audience sees/thinks I like the idea of knowing before I turn around But I wonder why it can't be repeated, or if it can't... I am sure that I will jump off the fence and tell myself off for not getting this sooner The products I have 'enjoyed' buying the most - were the ones that I already knew exactly what they are... maybe I'm in the wrong business |
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RedDevil Inner circle Deep South 1315 Posts |
Hey guys. I didn't read Max's review that he was accusing me of misleading anyone (I certainly didn't). In fact I read it that he liked it but at this time he might not use it because he likes to be able repeat his effects for people. I thought it was a fair review.
As for repeatability, well technically most of my mentalism I don't repeat for the same person very often so the method in that respect doesn't really concern me. That would be true technically of most equivoque routines, for example, as well. In my mind this effect is very suited for stage/parlor as much as close up. As Max wrote, it would've fooled him. Is TITE One of those things you can do multiple times on the same person. No, not in a short time span between effects. But seriously, that same limitation applies to many great pieces of mentalism. And yes the name is a corny acronym. But I think it is waterTITE.
www.reddevilmentalism.com
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Max Hazy Special user 543 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 3, 2017, The Mac wrote: Mac, I disagree with you that I should be the one seeking it. If something could "break" the effect for someone, it should be mentioned. An example would be 50:50 Fantasia and is the exact reason why I didn't purchased it, because the creator warned about this particular criteria so performers could make an informed decision (and the purchasers were happy with what they got there). That warning didn't happen here. Furthermore, why should I contact Red Devil privately to check if a limitation don't hit a personal criteria when others could also have that criteria? Let's say 100 people wanted to know about the limitation... he would have to give 100 replies? Why not saying the limitation together with the effect? Any limitation is part of an effect. That limitation could've been mentioned before as it doesn't point to how the effect is achieved. Red Devil was NOT misleading here at all, but knowing that limitation only after I purchased left me disappointed on this one. Anyway, I'll surely be more careful next time with pre-release prices, being happy with previous purchases and endorsements. Red Devil, no worries buddy. It's a great effect. Sure, this can even fool performers... but won't fool a lay person twice as the other things I chose to do, so at this moment, this isn't for me. The Duster, you don't need DR to know what the person choose... that's just something suggested there to expand the concept.
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman "Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward" Jan Forster Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/ Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/ |
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The Duster Inner circle 1693 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 3, 2017, Max Hazy wrote: I think it's more a case of it effects sales If you don't mention this works once, but you can't repeat it to the same person... you will make less sales For instance, he wouldn't have got your sale, for a start And you don't exactly lose face, as you never said in the copy it could be done more than once [or what ever limitation wasn't mentioned] If 50/50 [Ian] mentioned this upfront - than he deserves a pat on the back and for his copy to carry more weight [than most] in the future. Thanks for your comments Max - as [in a good way] it has 'put me off' buying this [for now] Why would I want to be able to repeat this effect [to the same person] - I was thinking along the lines of a 'reverse' Find the Lady [shell game] Where I was the punter - the spec the 'spiv' It was just how my mind was going... as I said I am sure it's a great eBook - and I look forward to getting it one day... as all I have ever heard is postive things about all of RD work All the best |
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videoman Inner circle 6732 Posts |
First of all, I think this is absolutely great. I thank RedDevil for generously sharing it with all of us. Fantastic work!!!
AFA stating that it is not really repeatable...I believe this was an honest oversight and not born out of greed. That is a VERY common attribute of so many effects (isn't it even one of the "Cardinal Rules" of magic?) and as such is not a particularly common criteria IMO so it would be easy to overlook. Regardless of the reason a certain criteria may not be mentioned in the ad copy I do feel it is the responsibility of the purchaser to do their due diligence to determine if a certain effect suits their needs. Perhaps now that it has been brought to his attention RedDevil will include it in his updated ad copy. Although for me personally it is not a factor in my use of this because I would not present the same exact version over again anyway and there are a thousand ways to present something similar to whatever effect you end up doing with this. I prefer to mix methods anyway. This is merely another tool (albeit an EXTREMELY clever one) to have in your tool box and can be used in ways truly only limited by your imagination. |
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The Duster Inner circle 1693 Posts |
I'm not saying he didn't put it in the ad copy on purpose [greed]
But it is natural to try and highlight the positives, when writing up ad copy So leaving out things that may be seen as negatives is natural Saying that many effects can just be done once - isn't totally fair - unless all effects had to tell you which camp they were in For instance 50/50 will work once [to that audience] but something like Sixth Sense 2.5 you would/could do multiple times... So it's up to the buyer to always find out [?] seems a bit one sided - especially as the creator is the one who has all the facts |
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Max Hazy Special user 543 Posts |
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On Sep 3, 2017, videoman wrote: As I said I'll be more careful from now on. Red Devil was restrictive with questions and I tried to be polite about it. I just hope that next time when I'm doing my "diligence" asking things like "can be performed fully surrounded?", it don't get interpreted as me trying to fish the method. I'm just saying this because I think it's important, as this kind of thinking that I quoted is leading more and more people to wait for reviews, products getting more expensive... culminating in cases like this: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......c=632098 An expensive idea, vaguely described and no reviews. I don't want that kind of thing happening so, I'm saying all I'm saying here because I believe it's important. That's all. I'd like to publicly say that I think Red Devil is a creative force in our field who certainly should have our support and certainly have mine! I think this was just a misfortune that could/should be avoided by both sides. I probably wouldn't have purchased if I knew that limitation but I still find value in my purchase. No worries guys! And I'm sure a lot of people will love this idea... Cheers!
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman "Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward" Jan Forster Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/ Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/ |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
There are a huge amount of great and classic effects that either cannot be or should not be repeated. As mentioned above - it's one of the beginners rules!
I would think that, for the most part being able to repeat an effect is a positive selling point, not a standard expectation. I understand Max's criteria, and that is fine, but it's by no means the only way to look at this. If you are focusing on abilities that are repeatable, it is incumbent on you to learn many methods for the same effect. This could be one of those methods (and there are plenty of other methods that would look close enough to the spectator. Not to say that is what Max should do, only that it's the way I personally think about it. Also - while the exact same effect may not be directly repeatable, it's not true to say that the underlying method is not ever repeatable. There could be several effects using the principle that appear quite different. Especially with a little time between. EDIT: Just for clarity, I was not responding to Max here, we posted at the same time
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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RedDevil Inner circle Deep South 1315 Posts |
I have read both sides of this good discussion, and I must admit I have mixed feelings (though I know many would say I could be biased). I believe there are many effects that we love that aren't repeatable in the next five minutes, and my experience is that if an effect is repeatable, it is often used as a highlight in any ad copy that is written ("And it is repeatable!!!"). But if it is not repeatable, I don't often see it highlighted. My ad copy is 100% accurate, and I hope most will remember that I gave a full performance demo to many of you...I did this as an attempt to actually do more than most creators are willing to do. Most folks don't give a full performance demo at all, and I had a few friends advise me not to do so. But I did it anyways because I was actually trying to be "more" transparent. I stand on my track record with folks here that I try to be one of the nice guys and give people quality every time. I believe I have done so with TITE as well.
I guess it comes down to whether people believe I tried to mislead them or not (which I didn't) and what my track record is. Many of my effects in 777 and Operation Gemini are not repeatable either, and it has never been an issue. But I hear you, and I have added a note to my ad copy. I am always open to fair feedback, and I feel confident that as long as I am honest and good to people, most will stand with me as long as I don't publish half-baked trash. So, I do appreciate the comments and critiques so far, and I appreciate the fair tone that Duster and Max have used. But here's the thing that I am very excited about. The system I have created has gotten me phenomenal reactions, and it is just downright FUN to perform. It is one of the most useful and flexible systems I have ever created, and I am very confident that many of you will get all kinds of good moments with it. I got a message just tonight from someone who performed it for the first time this evening, and he was extremely happy with the reactions he received. In fact, he came up with a presentation that is better than the one I put in the book...which was the goal of the book in the first place: Give you the basic idea and then let you run with it. Finally, here is what people are noticing about this...It almost becomes propless, like good mentalism should. Just as a billet should fade in the background as the mind-reading begins, you will find that the cards kind of just disappear...leaving you with the ability to get away with some pretty amazing moments of mentalism. Of course, I'm the seller, and I am biased. But I feel strongly about it. I guess my thought is that I finally created something that many people could not figure out, even if I gave them a full demo. They experienced pure joy at the thought of it and wanted to be able to do it themselves. If they read my e-book TITE, they will be able to. I love this thing and I believe most of those who have received it will too when they perform it. Just my two cents.
www.reddevilmentalism.com
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