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flatbatt New user 7 Posts |
Hi to all
First a bit about me I have been studying magic for about 10 years.it went from an interest to a passion to almost obsessive drive. I am an amateur magician/ mentalist. I have done a few mental shows (I live in a small town in South Africa) and am probably the only magician in the area- Cape Town is 4ooklm away. The shows I have done have been for corporate events and private parties. The spectator response has been good , great and really great I have studied Tarbell (not all as some of it is not applicable but the theory was important) Henry Hoy (amateur magicians hand book) Nic Einhorn, Corinda, Annemann, Bannecheck and numerous others. Penguin Live has been very helpful. I have read, watched and practiced various magic and mental effects and developed some of my own ideas and produced them to good result. I have had my audience amazed, I have had a preacher wanting to cast demons out of me after a show because he believed the only way I could have these powers is from demon possession (that was a boost to think an educated person believed I was the real deal) and many people after a show asked me to explain how I can make predictions or the read their mind etc. So I must be ok at what I do I have now been asked to put on a charity event from cradle to grave. And although I wont get paid the audience is going to be paying. This is where I am stuck and need help Even with the good response from my audience, if I watch my show afterwards (after the high of performing) it seems flat. I want the charity show to be at the level of Derren Brown. So first how many of your stage assistants can you trust with your effects if any. Do you do full dress rehearsals with all the stage and lighting people. How do I input music into the show What is the "magic" ingredient that turns a good show into a mind blowing event (I have really good effects thanks to Bob Cassidy, Doc Hilford Richard Ostelind and a few others and I practice them and the lines and movements) but I want the show to be such that when I watch the recording or anyone else does the must think F88k this guy is brilliant Any advice will be helpful |
Nestor D Special user France (Paris) 830 Posts |
Take theater classes. It will teach you all except the effects (which you seem to already have).
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Mark Timon Special user 594 Posts |
You cant never be at the same level of DB. Are you crazy? Reading your post made me laugh. Basically you want the recipe of success . Good luck. Be yourself and commit to whatever you do. Just do it, time will improve you. If you are older than 20 ,I'd be surprised.
Regards |
Joe Atmore Elite user Joe Atmore 419 Posts |
Just for starters, you need a producer. Consultant. Stage director, manager. Script writer. Lighting and sound technicians. A rehearsal venue. Another venue to perform in while you test out the show and modify it. And probably 1 to 2 years of working on it and someone who can fund the effort..
Best Thoughts,
Joe Atmore International Artists Consultant Uri Geller's Phenomenon TV Series; PEA Bob Haines Memorial Award; Dunninger Show Recreation; Author of Dunninger Knows and Dunninger's Brain Busters JosephAtmore.com |
dusty Veteran user 352 Posts |
In addition to Nestor D's post, I suggest you also consider Jeff McBride's advice to study dance, Tai chi and martial arts to assist with posture, breathing and economy of movement.
You need an experienced 3rd party to review your shows, as they will see much more than you do. good luck.
Regards,
Dusty aka Max Gordon. "Always give 100%, Unless you're a blood donor!" Exclusive publications available from: www.solutions.yolasite.com |
WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
I second the "take theater and acting lessons" suggestion.
That's where you'll learn the things that make shows better.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 26, 2017, Mark Timon wrote: The one thing you need the most is experience and that can not be rushed or faked. If this is a sincere interest, you need to learn a great deal about the market and that part of the business. You have unrealistic expectations to think you can create something at your current level to match the production of DB at your current level of experience. I say this not to discourage you, but to offer you some valuable insight that to achieve any type of success needs to be grounded in reality. There are thousands of performers that would also like this as well, and it is simply not possible out of the box with any market knowledge or experience, and minimal performing experience. As you will soon find out it is about far more than the effects you perform. It becomes about theatrics, audience dynamics, performance dynamics, production, direction, stage management and soooo much more. By your post we can tel you are definitely thinking like a magician which can be impairing. To do a show like this you need to think like a producer, of which you have no experience. Even as a performer I am very concerned by your statement "many people after a show asked me to explain how I can make predictions or the read their mind etc. So I must be ok at what I do ". "So, I must be okay?" The worst thing any performer can do is listen to such people's comments after a show and take them to heart. There could be just as many people at were dissatisfied or didn't like the what you did, but of course they will not come up to you and tell you that in person. I just experienced this with a young performer seeking representation from one of my agencies as somewhere on the Café I detailed the whole experience and put it in the proper light. You must be ready and at a point to be able to do a show like this. Your focus should be on researching and learning as much about this area of the market as possible right now before biting off more than you can chew. Try to get in or with a current production or tour to see, learn and experience this from the inside while gaining actual experience. Very few here have actually produced a theater show or tour, so also be careful who you listen to. Dealing in honesty and reality is your first step. Gaining the knowledge and experience is the second step. Almost every question you've asked will be answered by doing this. On the other hand if this is just a flaming post along the lines of another "I am going to do a show I've never doe before, what do you suggest-type of thread, too much of our time has already been wasted. So give us some information about yourself. You come popping in with such a grand scenario and question and we know little about you. How ol dare you and where are you from? |
flatbatt New user 7 Posts |
Hi to all and thanks for your comments
I have enrolled in the acting classes because after my last show (which if I watch the video reactions of the audience was successful) I felt that is what I was lacking. To Mark Timon I am surprised I came across so immature I am 54 and for my "day Job" I manage large scale offshore projects for the oil industry. What this has given me is the money to put together (although in a small scale) a show" the project management skills to actually build a show (not a lot different from building and installing an oil rig just as many variables and no room for error) (and more on a personal note don't go telling people they cant do something its both morally wrong and bad form especially if you don't know them)(Oh yes I am crazy, managing multi million dollar offshore projects from cradle to grave can make you that way) In addition to the project management skill I am also used to public speaking which is part of the job. I agree with most of your comments, Lighting and sound techs I have as well as a venue and I have read (a few times) Maximum entertainment by Ken Weber. I have made a point of going to as many stage shows as possible not just for the show itself but to see how its been put together To Mind pro no this is not just a passing phase or a troll type comment, I really have a passion for this and if it is to be a two year project then so be it I am going to make it happen. I understand that both magic and mentalism it is not the "trick" but the presentation. Even a thumb tip and Svengali deck in the hands of a skilled presenter can be made to seem magical. I am going to discuss the production with the drama teacher Thanks again to all for responding and it is not impossible remember it was engineers who put men on the moon doing a stage show doesn't seem all that impossible Regards Guy |
flatbatt New user 7 Posts |
Sorry an after thought
I am not out to copy Derren Brown in fact I prefer Banachecks style of performance. What I want to create, no matter how crazy or impossible it seems, is a show of the same quality that Derren puts out. I have my own persona and style and each time I perform the persona gets better and I become more confident Regards to all Guy |
jstreiff Special user 701 Posts |
It takes a dream to do great things; naysayers rarely reach such heights. As Casey Kasem used to sign off American Top 40, "Keep your feet on ground and reach for the stars!" Best of luck to you!
John
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
I think context is always important in these types of posts. You would approach and assist a amateur starry-eyed kid, differently than an adult that can consider many factors that the young often don't. Still, even for a well-seasoned performer, creating a Derren-level show in only a year or two can be a stretch, especially having never worked the market before. Not trying to discourage, just create a proper perspective to assist.
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George Hunter Inner circle 2013 Posts |
Flatbatt:
Let me first commend you. You have learned some serious mentalism in more isolation than most of us, without the mentoring and social support that most of us take for granted. You have been very proactive, so way to go! Let me also second what some others have said on this thread. The kind of development you seek has NO quick fix. It involves wide and deep learning, and rehearsal, practice, experience, and reflection. Oh, learn from Brown's most important insight related to your quest: He couldn't do it without his very competent team. George |
innercirclewannabe Inner circle Ireland 1597 Posts |
Guy, I sent you a DM. Hopefully you find some value in it. The main thing is to ignore the naysayers, I wonder how many stage shows they have under their belt?
Bet of luck to you. Robert.
Tá sé ach cleas má dhéanann tú sé cuma mhaith ar cheann.
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flatbatt New user 7 Posts |
Hi again such positive responses but I can be quite thick so to mindpro what do you mean about "especially having never worked the market before" what do you mean by the market?? and to innercirclewannebe what is a DM
Oh and naysayers have never put me off My only regret is I didn't discover magic at an earlier age |
Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
I was referring to having performance experience and operational knowledge of the performance market. As performers there are many different performance markets we can choose to work - cruise ships, colleges, corporate, fairs, festivals, weddings, kids parties, K-12 education, and so on. The theater market is a very unique and multi-layered market, so I was just wondering what experience you may have in this market?
As a performer, creating any show, business and operational plan and eventual marketing, should all be based in the interests, needs, dynamics and intricacies of that performance market. A basic good place to start is with market knowledge and research. I can tell you this, after 40 years in live entertainment as a full-time entertainer, owner of three agencies, a talent broker, producer and promoter, almost every single market is far different than most performers realize from the outside. That was what I was referring to. I hope that better clarifies my insights. Best of luck! |
philraso Regular user 175 Posts |
Quote:
Even with the good response from my audience, if I watch my show afterwards (after the high of performing) it seems flat. I want the charity show to be at the level of Derren Brown. First good luck. This is not easy. What effects are you performing? How long is the show? Have you posted any video of your show? I'm sure you would get some advice if people here could see it. |
flatbatt New user 7 Posts |
The show I want to do is about 45 min
It starts with a quick number routine which supposedly shows skill with math's (I add up a group of random 5 digit numbers quicker than an audience member can with a calculator) Then a quick simple effect with post it notes and a cards in a 14/15 stack where members write a number on a postit note and I identify who wrote what and the last person cuts the cards and thinks of the value of the next two card which I then "divine" -Simple stuff but seemingly impossible. I then have a set of letters displayed (from a scrabble set) I ask a member of the audience to come on stage and choose the letters from the set that spell her name (I always use women) she holds the letters tight in her hand then tips them into a bag she then tips the rest of the letters into the same bag and mixes them up (all this is very clean) I then put my hand in the bag and by picking up on her energy imparted into the letters I feel her letters amongst the rest and take out only those that spell her name. I then have a couple pick a holiday destination and after they have chosen I show a prediction as to what destination they chose (this is usually a big hit as the prediction is in full view all the time) Then I do a drawing duplication from a set of 30 photographs explaining that each photo creates an emotion and by picking up on the emotion I can divine what photograph they chose (again shock and awe factor with this one) Depending now on time I have a few goto effects which I might throw in (book test or memorized deck) And I close with a cross number prediction routine which I learnt from watching Marc Paul using the 5 numbers that were randomly picked in the beginning -Standing ovation for this All of this is scripted and the patter is generated to explain what each effect does and how by using mental training or the feeling of sense, each effect is possible. I use examples of the umbilical cord between mother and child or how we can all sense how are partners are feeling. Things that most people are familiar with but don't understand them. Most of the effects come from other people but with my own slant. What I know I lack is polish and if I stuff it somehow it takes me a few seconds to regroup. I start each show with a vaguely worded disclaimer |
paul180 Loyal user 219 Posts |
Those of whom I have known and many of them are still working as top professionals in the industry, have lived and breathed the craft for most of their lives. I don't know ANYBODY who got it easily. That being said, there are things one can learn to make the road less bumpy. Sometimes int's not what you know but who you know. Give me a pm and I'll talk more about this, with you behind the scenes.
A wise man can learn more from a foolish question than a foolish man can learn from a wise answer.
Attributing negativity to a topic or post doesn't make the topic or post negative, it shines a light on the negativity of the person or persons, making the attributions. BEWARE these Debbie downers and anything they say. They simply lack the self esteem or good will, to be positive or productive. Your belief in self, is more important and is all that matters, for your success to be glorious. |
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