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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
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On Oct 12, 2017, IAIN wrote: I really hate my new phone's auto-correct...though it can be quite funny...Barnett = Barbery and slimmer = slimming
I've asked to be banned
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
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On Oct 11, 2017, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote: but what about all the ewoks?
I've asked to be banned
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts |
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On Oct 11, 2017, Last Laugh wrote: No worries, Last Laugh. It's all just showbiz at the end of the day. |
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Djin Regular user 191 Posts |
Nine pages in, I'm late to the game.
On the original question of mentalism being used outside of entertainment, if we expand the question to include the base methods of mentalism, they are widely used outside of "mentalism" and entertainment. Years ago I got to know a police detective. We practiced jiu jitsu together. He told me a little bit about the methods they use during an interview or an interrogation. Tricks that they use to appear to know more than they possibly could. In short, an experienced cop can do a "cold reading" with the best of the old carnies. Are they using "mentalism" outside the realm of a show? Are they being ethical? Tough call. My friend told me some things during the time I knew him that left me with conflicts about him as a person and his colleagues as a profession. He and they do much good, and some bad. Moving to another field. Show me a salesman who doesn't use some of the same tools as the stage hypnotist to build rapport and gain compliance and I will show you a salesman who lives on Ramen noodles. OK, a hypnotist and a mentalists are not the same, but there is an overlap. My point remains that the tools he uses are used outside the context of the show. Now, salespeople don't hypnotize customers (though many would if they could) and there is no trance that will make someone sign the contract...but they use similar tools of rapport and trust and implied authority. Is that wrong? Is it unethical? It could be, but I argue that it is not at its root wrong to convince a client that he should believe that you DO have the solution to his company's problem. (If, of course, you do sell a good product/service) Salesmen are also, by necessity cold readers par excellance. In short, if we break mentalism down into the methods used, they are everywhere. That's because the base elements are by nature simple. The art and mastery comes from creative application of simple elements. Simple doesn't mean easy, it means simple. When those elements are used to create an entertaining mysterious experience it's mentalism. When they are used to convince a lonely, sad person that The Guru will lead them to Paradise, it's a cult. When they are used to convince the suspect that the authorities know more than they do, prompting him to testify against the other suspects, it's law and order. Myself, I don't perform in any professional way. This is a hobby for me and so mostly I'm creating an effect outside the context of any "show." I'm not taking money. I like to hope I'm "blowing minds" and leaving people with a sense of wonder. I suspect that most people know I'm "doing a trick" and just play along. A few people certainly believe I "have a gift" but I don't feel in any way guilty over that because I'm careful to avoid any sort of influence over them beyond influencing how they perceive what I show them. |
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Max Hazy Special user 543 Posts |
Answering the topic. I too have pondered about using trickery to "boost" things. Once you become familiar and understand things like "Pygmalion effect" your vision about how to construct your set of actions changes. If you come and say 10 things correctly about the person, the 11th one is already expected to be correct. Hell, even if the 11th thing you say is wrong the person would rebuild it to fit due to the expectation.
I thought about using a peek during a tarot ritual. But I felt "guilty" about it even if I separated the "trickery" from the actual reading. So that's probably where my line is. I don't feel comfortable mixing real readings with trickery. That doesn't apply to other things though. About the examples: 1- Tony Eye mentioned using 'special effects' and 'object lessons' to punctuate ideas in the course of a metaphysical teaching or sermon. R- I don't have a problem with that. 2- Philemon mentioned using marked tarot cards and cold reading in the course of a reading to create a more memorable experience for the sitter. R- I would feel guilty doing that. 3- Martin Pulman suggests that using trickery in any situation outside of entertainment is charlatanism. R- I partially agree with that. For instance, I have no problem using tricks to illustrate a point outside entertainment environment because to my eyes that would be like adding entertainment there (when that's clear). It all comes down to intentions from both sides. 4- Using trickery in order to create belief so that the cure can work (ostensibly by the placebo effect). R- I would use trickery to build credibility and use that credibility in a positive way. I never want my work having anything to do with medicine, law or finance. So, even though I can almost "sympathize" with that (for the positive aspects)... I definitely wouldn't do that, as it crosses my line. Never the less, intention plays a major role here on both sides.
"Your method is in my opinion the very best way to do Q&A"
Millard Longman "Max has pushed some less known and seldom used principles a huge step forward" Jan Forster Arcane Grimoires Vol 1- http://www.maxhazy.com/arcane-grimoires/apocryphal-reach/ Arcane Grimoires Vol 2- http://www.maxhazy.com/Codex-Mentis/ |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 13, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote: It's a dying art. The old trolls really invested in a character. They were in it for the long con. Not like these ballyhoo grifters...
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 13, 2017, mahdicombo wrote: It appears that Mark Lewis is back.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Lol!
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Mark_Chandaue Inner circle Essex UK 4187 Posts |
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On Oct 12, 2017, IAIN wrote: Autocorrect was not far off the mark as the Barber is where you go to get your Barnett cut (for those not of a cockney persuasion Barnett = Barnett Fair = Hair) Mark |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Let's not discuss the virtues of Aristotle nor the area of Berkshire...
I've asked to be banned
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RCP Inner circle Two Minnie's in The Hell's Half Acre, The Republic of Texas 2183 Posts |
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On Oct 13, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote: Nice to have a refreshing view. Can you confirm the details of Martin being driven across the pond? |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
Hah! Here's your 'proof'...
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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