|
|
|
|||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3..8~9~10~11~12~13~14 [Next] | ||||||||||
Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21245 Posts 
|
To make every person of the same race pay back the money 400 years later IS racist.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
|||||||||
|
stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts
|
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote: Exactly. The analogy of a race is flawed. Also, the assumption of white privilege is flawed. Again, we are much too imprecise. We group things together into...well...groups. But real human beings exist in a much more fluid reality than ideological categories allow. Take me, for example. Remind me of how I benefited from white privilege while brown-skinned people in Hawaii called me an effin haole and punched me around and threatened to burn down my house and rape my girlfriend. Remind me of how my ex-President--going to high school across town from me at the same time--was a victim of black skin in a place where white skin was the wrong skin to have. Remind me of why we--Obama and I--are exceptions and not the rule--and then take a second look and realize that maybe your "rules" are fictional and ideological. See, real human beings have real lives, not ideological lives. Real joy, and real pain. My Hawaii was very different from Obama's Hawaii. Still, I realize that African Americans have--as a group--suffered terrific disadvantages and have been victims of discrimination. I just have a problem with the assumption that white Americans--as an ill-defined racial group--have always been the beneficiaries of that discrimination. Legacies at Yale tell a story of the 1%, not the 99%. |
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
|
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, landmark wrote: Correct. I felt the language marker (homey) sufficient to trigger racist commentary. The question stands - would "that" make the sweatshirt okay to wear? I.E. what's the real price of cultural inclusion? Hint: meaningful differences in context. Obsolete coins, quaint props, deprecated software (ideas)... nostalgia?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
|
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, stoneunhinged wrote: That's a fictional group. And I suspect you're deleting some parts of the story - narrative opportunism? Please - ask any person you know who lives in any African nation what they'd pay to be a US citizen.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
|
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts
|
Landmark:
I'm a little confused on your position regarding on the one hand race being a social construct which cannot be objectively verified, and on the other hand there being consequences for 'passing oneself off as white/black/whatever'. How can those be held together? If I 'feel' white and self-identify as white, and there is no objective way of determining whiteness, how could there be any legal, institutional way of having scrutiny or consequences for identifying 'incorrectly'? Now, if we add quotas or affirmative action style racism into the mix, what is there preventing me, say, self-identifying as black to get certain privileges one week, then white another time to get something else, then as a Native American a week after and so on? How can my subjective cultural sincerity be assessed non-arbitrarily? One might wish to consider trans-racialism in the context of transgenderism. Danny/ stone unhinged: Agreed. Racial collectivism is racism. And cultural Marxism. I don't think much good comes from either. |
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
|
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, Terrible Wizard wrote: ah yes, back to the issue of bathrooms... okay - what's your position on that 'separate but equal' matter?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
|
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts
|
I'm not sure I understand the issue you're referring to clearly enough.
Are you asking whether or not I think employers have the right to allow employees/customers to use the bathroom of their choice? Or are you asking whether or not I think people have a right to demand to be able to use the bathroom of their choice? |
|||||||||
|
landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
|
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote: Where did I say make every person of the same race pay back the money? I didn't. And maybe you didn't read my post where I specifically addressed the "400 years ago" argument.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
|||||||||
|
landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
|
Stone wrote:
Quote:
Still, I realize that African Americans have--as a group--suffered terrific disadvantages and have been victims of discrimination. I just have a problem with the assumption that white Americans--as an ill-defined racial group--have always been the beneficiaries of that discrimination. I believe that class discrimination is even more fundamental to American life than racial discrimination. Nothing I've said in this thread should be taken to think I believe otherwise. The white working class has been thoroughly exploited throughout American history. But while economic status and racial status often overlap--indeed, race is often carelessly used as a marker for economic status--the strange history of race in America still cannot be ignored. There are some unique considerations based on race that cannot be explained by class. 1) A white worker, on average, historically, has been paid far more than the black worker doing the same job. This is just a fact. 2) But, secondly, there are times when racial discrimination transcends class discrimination; that is, it is more likely that a Black surgeon trying to move into a lily-white neighborhood will be rebuffed than a white worker who makes less money. As to your own experiences in Hawaii, of course individual experiences will vary. No one is defending what happened to you. But none of that erases the historical wrongs that have happened on a mass scale, and that need to be ameliorated.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
|
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, landmark wrote: So we should review the history of Liverpool as regards The Beatles music?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
|
landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
|
Too opaque for me. Expand, please.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
|
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, Terrible Wizard wrote: Close - Keep parsing, what's motivating the choice?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
|
landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts
|
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, Jonathan Townsend wrote: If it's what I think you may be getting at, take a look at how Seeger handled The Lion Sleeps Tonight.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
|||||||||
rockwall Special user 762 Posts
|
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, landmark wrote: It's true, the set asides for businesses do not rely on self-identification, thereby actually making it MORE difficult to game the system as a business. But why don't you believe that it SHOULD rely on self-identification? I thought you believed that anyone should be able to self-identify as anything they want. Your claim that it's difficult to self-identify in a college situation as something other than what you are doesn't hold water. Once you self-identify on your college application and get the benefit of whatever you self-identified as, you don't need to go around claiming to everyone that you are who you claimed to be. Just as fauxcahontos self-identified as Indian, once she got the job it was pretty much forgotten about other than the University adding to their brochure how they had just hired the first "woman of color" professor. Your argument seems to be that anyone should be able to self-identify as anything they want with no repercussions for not actually being what they claim to self-identify as. So, what would it matter if someone claimed to be a person of color but were not? In your view, I would assume you don't believe that Rachel Dolezal should have ever been dismissed. |
|||||||||
|
rockwall Special user 762 Posts
|
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, stoneunhinged wrote: More evidence of why I was shocked to see you claim to align closely with landmark's political beliefs! |
|||||||||
|
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts
|
Jonathan:
Many things could motivate their choice, from a medical condition to fashion. Does it matter? Are you asking whether or not people with medical condition X have a right to demand to use a bathroom of their choice? If it helps, I tend towards thinking a) businesses can choose to allow or not allow bathroom access as they see fit - and suffer whatever economic and social outcomes may come their way from those choices, and b) nobody has the right to demand the use of the bathroom or changing room or pronoun or passport or whatever of their choice. It is a privilege granted not a right to insist upon. I understand that real suffering will ensue from whatever course of action one takes, and that it is impossible to please everyone. So in line with good classical liberal principles I think it best to try and maximise personal liberty whilst lessening the sum total of suffering for the most people. My answer to that principle is the above two 'rules'. If I want to allow transgender people to use the bathroom of their self-identified gender then that's up to me - and I'll get praise and custom (money) from such as agree, and protest and boycott from those who are scared to share a bathroom with someone who they think poses a threat. Or I can choose the opposite and face the reverse consequences. But as an individual I cannot impose my personal choice on others, thus I cannot expect businesses to cater to my desires; I can, however, take my business where I want and say what I want in protest. Public institutions, like schools and the such like, will either have to decide their policy by democratic means (majority rules in this) or find an alternative solution, such as single occupant unisex bathrooms or changing cubicles, or designated trans bathrooms, (as an accommodation to a minority). Seems easy enough 
|
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
|
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, landmark wrote: interesting word from French - to make better/improve. Not to correct, fix, repair, make whole, balance, repay... Not to address cause or root causes... still locked into a cave but given a scented candle - but not matches because...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
|
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts
|
You have an ... Interesting ... Way of engaging in discussion, Johnathan, lol
|
|||||||||
|
Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27300 Posts
|
Quote:
On Dec 6, 2017, Terrible Wizard wrote: ? thanks? So, about that "choice" of bathroom. Consider that in light of our society's recent discussion of "separate but equal". Is that a defensible position?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
|
|||||||||
|
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts
|
Didn't I just answer the bathroom question???
|
|||||||||
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Conspiracy Theories, False Flags etc. » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (37 Likes) | ||||||||||
| Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3..8~9~10~11~12~13~14 [Next] | ||||||||||
Posted: Dec 6, 2017 05:30 pm 
| [ Top of Page ] |
|
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.07 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
|
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < 
|