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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
There is a dark side to everything. Landmark’s desire to create a more scientific Socialist medical practice and research have already raised the issues of euthanasia, eugenics, and medical experimentation on human subjects this century, as it did in Germany in the last century. The NHS here in England has, in fact, practiced those very things in its time. In the last century, the increasing involvement of the German government in medical care and funding medical research established the government-medical complex that the National Socialists later used it to execute their extermination policies. Therefore, then, I would say that NHS systems are good and bad because they also do an awful lot of good. I have no problem paying something to help but I do have a problem with them using it to murder people obviously.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 4, 2017, tommy wrote: Frankly, tommy, I inferred it from your a) failure to address the obvious racism and antisemitism in the OP video. b) immediate attempt to change the topic to economics c) complete misunderstanding of the economics in question d) continued attack on others for things they haven't said. You clearly use the "guilt by association with Nazism" to attack landmark. But you reveal no understanding of Nazism yourself. Perhaps you failed to address the racism and antisemitism for other grounds. But your rapid change of topic is most peculiar. But hey, it's perfectly fair for you to paint landmark and me with the brush of Nazism; why wouldn't a little sauce for the goose also suit the goose-stepper?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Well don't you like to pretend to be above that sort of behavior?
I mean just because you don't come out against Al Gore does not mean you agree with him. You have claimed this many times about other subjects, yet now it is you taking that position and tommy is on the other end only with a different subject. Not exactly consistent John. I understand the impulse, especially as frustrating as he can be.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 4, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote: Nicely diagnosed. If anyone knows what tommy actually believes, I'd love to hear it. After years hanging out here, I still have no clue.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Obviously, John hasn’t presented one iota of evidence to support his false charge against me that I was supporting the Nazi’s because there is none whatsoever and the evidence clearly shows that I was doing quite the opposite.
What made the American Nazi movement so popular was not simply anti-Semitism but it was the Socialist nature of it. That is not something I actually believe but something I actually know.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
And how do you know that?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Reading remains essential. They were certainly Jew haters but the Bund became its own self-contained world. Members were able to have most of their needs met through Bund-controlled shops and businesses. Susan Canedy states “that Bundists and their families found it possible to live their entire existence within the group’s framework. Bund membership furnished many benefits, not the least of which was to provide a bond with those of a similar worldview and a shared cultural heritage. In fact, on a local basis, the Bund was relatively apolitical. Members celebrated life cycle events, such as marriages, births, and death, in a communal fashion. A subdivision of the German American Bund Auxiliary, the Women’s Auxiliary, was instrumental in providing the necessities of life for those less fortunate within the movement.”
https://fau.digital.flvc.org/islandora/o......Bund.pdf It is no good simply calling these Nazis names, you have to look into it and see how it works, see how crafty they are and it is the same with the all extremist gangs. The leaders or rather “misleaders” use what are essentially benign or good things to get the useful idiots into it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 4, 2017, Magnus Eisengrim wrote: His belief seems to be whatever gets under the skin of who he is addressing.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If the truth gets under peoples skins then let it be known that I believe in getting under peoples skin. If all you want to do is say the Nazi’s were racist and anti-Semites then all I have to say is no **** Sherlock.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 4, 2017, tommy wrote: This is a meaningless statement. The same could be said about every other powerful group: Christian Evangelicals, Hasidic Jews, Rush Limbaugh listeners, Italian immigrants, Republican party operatives, IBM members (okay, maybe not healthcare, but all the double-facers you would need for an entire lifetime), Fortune 500 billionaires, gamblers, organized crime, and military personnel. If these are all examples of Socialism to you, then it's a pretty useless definition. If we're talking about Marxist Socialism on the other hand, as you claim was Hitler's secret agenda, then it is totally incorrect as Nazism lacked the defining feature of Marxism: abolition of private enterprise.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Perhaps it would have made more sense if you had not cut it like some censor from the People's Republic of China.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
I was trying to spare you.
The rest is even more nonsensical as a definition of socialism: "In fact, on a local basis, the Bund was relatively apolitical." Oh, really??? Do you think, just maybe, just maybe, they might have shared some political views? "Members celebrated life cycle events, such as marriages, births, and death, in a communal fashion. A subdivision of the German American Bund Auxiliary, the Women’s Auxiliary, was instrumental in providing the necessities of life for those less fortunate within the movement.” I guess that makes the local Kiwanis and Raccoon club members socialists too. In your mad rush to deny that Fascism was and is an extreme faction of the right wing, your comments devolve into nonsense. The problem with that is that it obscures the reason why Fascism was successful in Germany, Spain, and Chile. The historical success of Fascism happened because when capitalism gets so onerous that people are crying out for relief, and there is no left-wing movement--as it had been exterminated in Germany, Spain, and Chile-- then Fascists rush in to fill up the vacuum and there is no one left to stop them. The elite capitalists inevitably make common cause with them. The Fascists are a little cruder and more physically brutal than the elite would like, but since the end is the same--they tolerate them.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 4, 2017, landmark wrote: There is no one to spare. Quote:
The historical success of Fascism happened because when capitalism gets so onerous that people are crying out for relief, and there is no left-wing movement--as it had been exterminated in German, Spain, and Chile-- then Fascists rush in to fill up the vacuum and there is no one left to stop them. Except the billions of people who happen to be in the way, by virtue of the fact that they have to eat. Quote:
The elite capitalists inevitably make common cause with them. The Fascists are a little cruder and more physically brutal than the elite would like, but since the end is the same--they tolerate them. There is no effective difference between crony capitalists and fascists. Why would you think there was? Because some are squeamish at the sight of blood?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Quote:
Why would you think there was? Because some are squeamish at the sight of blood? Yes. The elite don't like to get their new suits dirty. That's for the others to take care of. The threat of violence is more efficient than the actual use of it--but make no mistake, it will be used when necessary. Fascism also has a strong nationalistic element that the elite capitalists don't at all care for. To the elite, the corporation is more important than any particular country, and capital must be allowed to move freely from one country to another. That tension can be seen in embryo between the Trumpists on the one hand, and the NAFTA-loving Dems and Repubs on the other. But in the end they all agree that the private enterprise system must rule no matter their small differences, and so they eventually work together.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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NYCTwister Loyal user 267 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 4, 2017, landmark wrote: I agree with all of that, but the willingness to be involved dissolves the difference. And I don't think the elites don't care "at all". Everyone needs to call SOMEPLACE home. A part of America's ridiculous hubris is the assumption that it must be here.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Strange that the American Nazis called themselves Bundist:
The General Jewish Labour Bund in Lithuania, Poland and Russia (Yiddish: אַלגעמײַנער ײדישער אַרבעטער בּונד אין ליטע פוילין און רוסלאַנד, Algemeyner Yidisher Arbeter Bund in Litah, Poyln un Rusland), generally called The Bund (Yiddish: בונד, cognate to German: Bund, meaning federation or union) or the Jewish Labour Bund, was a secular Jewish socialist party in the Russian Empire, active between 1897 and 1920. Remnants of the party continued to exist abroad. A member of the Bund is called a Bundist. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Je......d_Russia
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Yes, the Jewish Labour Bund was well-known in NYC and has an interesting history. They were anti-Zionist Jews who had aligned with the Menshaviks during the Russian Revolution. Later, there were some from the party elected to the NYC council in the twenties, and some of the militant union organizers in NY came out of that party.
If you're implying however--and I'm not saying you are-- that the Jewish Labour Bund and the German Bund had anything to do with each other because of the word "bund," that's pretty much like saying that The Conservative Party and The Very Silly Party and The Drink Red Mango Juice Party are all the same because they have the word "Party" in their names.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
On a completely unrelated note people who use the word "party" as a verb make me nervous.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
What I am saying is what I said.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Magnus Eisengrim Inner circle Sulla placed heads on 1053 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 5, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote: Come on Barbie, let's go party.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats |
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