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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts 
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OK, this is my first real issue. I am very good at memorizing data, numbers, words, concept, but I found out I am horrible at memorizing movements sequences. Especially when the moves are very similare one to another and even more when the part that the audience see is veritually identical, while you are doing something different each time. I think I have practiced Twisting The Aces 300 times now and still I am not at 100%. I master the sleights, and I am not guilty at all, no question: I just keep forgetting the sequence. It is very frustrating: any suggestion here is greatly appreciated.
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts
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I do two things:
First, I back off and consider the whole, and where I am in context with it. You can get so myopic you forget where you are. Keeping the big picture in mind, rather than focusing on particular moves, definitely helps. (You should have the moves so down that you don't have to think about them.) Second, with repeated things I memorize the main differences and the order they come in. E.g., with a sponge ball "two in the hand, one in the pocket" routine, I might memorize some sequence like: 1. pretend to put in pocket but steal second ball; 2. actually put ball in pocket; 3. put all three balls in pocket. Just memorizing the sequence of that one difference of what happens when my hand goes to my pocket keeps me on track. That, and maybe you just need to do it 500 times. It will come when you are completely familiar with your material.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts
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I like the memorize difference. I will probably need to write it down and then memorize the sequence with the new code. Great suggestion, thanks!
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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willtupper New user 57 Posts
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This probably sounds dumb (or crazy), but practice in the shower.
Not with your actual props, mind you. Just concentrate on making your hands go through all the motions - as if - the props are actually there. There's something about water - for me, at least - that helps me commit things (moves, lines, etc) to memory. Also, maybe take a break, work on something else, and then come back to what you're stumbling on later. Giving your mind some time to absorb what you're working on, a period of rest and recovery, often helps as well. |
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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts
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Hummm... Not really sure about the shower, but thanks for suggesting, I will give it a try
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts
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Personally I tend to associate movements with script moments.
As I say X, I am doing Y. Eventually, saying X triggers an urge to do Y.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts
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Nice idea too. Thanks, I will try both and see what works best.
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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davidpaul$ Inner circle Georgetown, South Carolina 3094 Posts
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In Eugene Burger's Dvd Close-Up Gourmet, He discusses scripting and movement in his explanation of
Card to Wallet. WhitchDocChris is spot on. Eugene Burger's (partial) script; My hand is empty, inside my back pocket is a wallet, inside my wallet is a card. Eugene matches scripting with execution. It helps with timing, process and smooth execution. The dvd is hard to find but available. It would be worth your time and money to pick up.
Guilt will betray you before technique betrays you!
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Newsround New user UK 82 Posts
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Taking a break is definitely a good idea. Have a few days of practising something different and then come back to it. I think you’ll be surprised by how much easier you find it
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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 31, 2018, davidpaul$ wrote: Sounds extremely interesting, but from a quick research it looks like there is no DVD version available. The few copies that are still around are VHS only and I have no way to see it unfortunately. Any thoughts?
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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willtupper New user 57 Posts
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One other small suggestion: if you can, see if you can track down the book, "A Book of Magic for Young Magicians: The Secrets of Alkazar," by the great Allen Kronzek.
There's a chapter in there on creating patter (scripting) for an effect, and the way he advises laying out a script in conjuction with what should be done. It's helped me quite a bit. And the book is currently $6.20 on Amazon. You may never find a better bargain, anywhere, for anything. The entire book is outstanding. |
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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts
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Quote:
On Jan 31, 2018, willtupper wrote: Sounds very interrsting, thanks!
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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Melephin Regular user 103 Posts
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I never memorize the moves or the sequences I have to do. All I concentrate on is what I want to show the audience, what I want them to see. Example: I take the ball in my hand, get the salt shaker out of my pocket put some magic salt on my hand, put the salt shaker away, open my hand. Wow - the ball is gone. Sometimes I fool even myself!
So I practice the techniques and moves separately. When I practice the routine, I only concentrate on the moment. What is it I want the spectator to see now... Like this, no need to memorize sequences (I would fail for sure). The moves (if practiced enough) would just fall in place. |
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Levi Bennett Inner circle 1778 Posts
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I make short, written notes. This method really helped me learn Stand Up Monte.
Performing magic unprofessionally since 2008!
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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts
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Quote:
On May 16, 2019, Melephin wrote: I'm curious how you can then learn sequences that repeat the same moves in different order over and over like, for example, Twisting The Aces.
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts
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Quote:
On May 17, 2019, Theodore Lawton wrote: Totally makes sense. ANn this is what eventually I learned on my own. Thank you Theodore. Andrea
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts
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Learning any involved sequence of movements, especially when some are similar to others, is a process that can really trip you up. When I was last working on learning a new cups and balls routine, here’s how I went about it:
First, I wrote my one page “Cliff’s notes” version. This condenses it into a description of what each phase is all about and what each move does. This might look like “reveal ball under left cup, loading as cup is replaced; pretend to put ball away, reload other cups.” Second, make sure I know how to do each move without thinking about it. I should know how to make the load happen, not have to think through what to do at that part of the routine. Third, I learn the routine one step at a time. This is exactly like when I learn a new piece of music. Only instead of sheet music, I have my routine notes. Run through it with the notes a few times. Any witty patter can be noted on the cheat sheet. This is like sight reading a tune a few times. Next, do the first phase from memory. Now do the first and second phases. Add patter. Do just those two phases a few times. Add the third. Do all 3 phases with patter. Continue until the whole routine is learned. Think of it like learning a new form/pattern/kata. You don’t learn it by walking through all 37 steps over and over. You learn as much as you can remember, add one move, do it all up to that point, add another move, etc. at least that’s what used to work for me. Patrick |
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andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts
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Quote:
On May 24, 2019, Mr. Woolery wrote: Thank you Patrick, very interesting hint. This looks a very good way of learning long routines with similar moves. I will definitely try this out. Andrea
In the avatar... I am the one falling
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Ravenspur Regular user Granby, MA 167 Posts
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My first trick was self-working John Bannon effect from MoveZero. Self-working, right? Shouldn't be hard, if it's self-working. Right? Simple set up. What could go wrong?
If you know what happens when you put cards on top of each other to mark spots and how turning the deck over affects things, maybe nothing goes wrong. If you're new to the game, it's not so simple. If your markers are supposed to end up in certain places, plenty can go wrong. If you have a hard time doing things by rote memorization and feel like you need to understand what you're doing, things get pretty complicated. That's what I had a hard time with. It took me a while to figure out what I was doing wrong and how to do it right. I tend to practice things without focusing until they become second nature. That didn't work with this card trick. I had to study it until I understood it. Then I could control it. Maybe some people are naturals, but most tricks take place in 3 dimensions, which is different than memorizing information. |
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Melephin Regular user 103 Posts
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Quote:
On May 17, 2019, andrea.corelli wrote: I don't do Twisting the Aces - I don't like this kind of routines. But what is there to remember? All you do is elmsley count - Jordan count - elmsley count - Jordan count *jawn* All I need to know is the positions of the cards and what I want to achieve. The moves I can do in my sleep. |
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Posted: Jan 29, 2018 10:02 pm 
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