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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Riffle stacking (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Tahur
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This one is for all you riffle stackers out there. I must state that I am new to the forum but not ignorant in card handling. In this video I demonstrate how I riffle stack. Iam open to input from other members.I will say I don’t thumb count the large numbers I do however get a minor get ready on the big ones but not all the way through. I have a background in street magic and am interested in being a card mechanic. I am young but ambitious. I did smash my right hand thumb nail sometime ago that’s why it doesn’t look so appealing but who cares. I would love to see more videos of riffle stacking like this one which is shot in one take and riffle stacking all the way up to 10 players.
Here's the video https://youtu.be/NIm0j6uxUeo
Cliff Rusnick
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I don't know if you've seen the video I posted not far down in the gambling spot here ( http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=188 ) but I've been practising stacking for over a decade and would say I still have minor tells of a stack (although I am pretty satisfied with my speed). while I'm positive I could get away with this stack in any soft game, I still don't think I'd risk it in fast company.

i want to be clear that I am not trying to be mean when I say this, but what you have is a dead giveaway of a stack that wouldn't fly in any soft game.

i will try to offer constructive criticism to consider for your practice here.

what you are practicing in this video is to be able to stack for any amount of players at a table. however you are far from using this stack in a game, so why practice for that?

what I would recommend is picking a number to stack consistently and always practice stacking for that number for a while until you get your speed up.
i started with stacking the 4 aces for a 5 handed game. holding back 4 cards is a challenge to do quickly, but a modest number compared to how many players typically play in a game of hold 'em these days. once your speed is up slightly, try stacking for 1 LESS players in game, and see how much easier it is for you. being able to stack one less should come easier to you after you speed is up and be a confidence boost to help you not give up out of sheer frustration.

alternate between these two stacks (4 and 5 handed games [or whatever numbers you choose to start with]). this will help you distinguish the difference by FEEL between the number of cards you're holding back, more easily without using the get ready you're currently doing. once you can riffle up without looking and KNOW if you have 3 or 4 cards (or whatever you start with) you will be able to KNOW when you have more than your max practice number. once you are able to distinguish the difference in how those two stacks feel, you should be able to eventually tell when you have 1 more than your max stack, or.. multiple cards more than your max. you can then, more easily work your way up to 6 and 7 handed games from there, possibly using your get ready if you can speed that up too, and further if you wish.

lastly, don't overlook stacking with more than 2 cards. in a poker game, often times a pair of aces can really sucker you in to thinking you have the nuts when in reality anyone could have a pair of 2s and 5s and beat your pocket aces. stacking for trips would be better practice and isn't as hard as stacking for a game of stud. you can't always stack yourself pocket aces, what if you only see a pair of deuces nearby? or perhaps trip duces? "gee I could use those trips, but I can only stack for two cards, guess I'll hold out for a bigger pair"

learn to stack for the flop, river or even the turn (don't forget burn cards) if you want to stack your trips to show up in the flop, all you have to do is start with 3 cards on top, hold back 2 cards in your right hand while you shuffle one (two or three) under them. very simple. one card would be your burn card, and two or three would just make your trip show up further down in the flop making it possibly less suspicious that you made trips with the first card of the flop. this is easy to do because you don't really have to pay attention to if you're shuffling one single card under the top two cards... meaning you could miss holding back a single and still have it work out for you. then carry on with your normal stack holding back only one on the next shuffle.

as more of a direct comment on your technique, you need to not stop riffling the right hand packet when you're checking to see if you have the right number of cards in your left hand. considering what you're doing right now is only shuffling under one card, you should be able to continue riffling with that hand AS you're counting the cards in your left (ideally you shouldn't be counting cards with your eyes at all... but everyone has to start somewhere) riffle that right hand pack down to the last card while you're counting, it should be easy enough, especially with what you're currently doing, you have no stack to worry about messing up, there should be no reason for the right hand to pause.

riffle stacking isn't easy, but it's rewarding when you can do it well. you have a long way to go, but I feel if you have more direction, repetition and consistent practice of the same thing, you will learn what a slug of 4 5 or 6+ cards feels like, and that's what riffle stacking is all about. feel. true dexterity.

hope this made sense. if not, feel free to drop me a pm and I can try to clarify.
good luck in your endeavours.
SimonCard
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There is a bit hesitation in dropping cards.
Make sure you check out AMcD's stacking videos.
splice
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Lose the close-up pad and learn to shuffle cards normally and not like a magician performing a trick before trying to stack them.
The Dowser
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I don't agree with some of the above advice. I think you have a lot of work to do but you are on the right track. I see no reason why you should lose the close up pad or why you should only concentrate on stacking to a certain number.
Going back and forth between two or more numbers is how you train your muscle memory to feel the difference...
and those who take the position that you are "not the real deal" unless you do all your practicing on a smooth surface are being counterproductive. Use your mat to help you attain proficiency first, then if you become affected and want to be the "Real Deal" you can start practicing your riffle work on a block of ice, a sheet of Teflon, or on the shuffleboard game on the deck of a cruise ship during gale-force winds.
Cliff Rusnick
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Dowser, I did mention going back and forth between different numbers. but how can you build muscle memory for something if there's no consistency? muscle memory is build from repetition, not from randomness. if you're starting from the ground up, stacking all kinds of numbers builds no familiarity with what you're doing until much, much later. I simply stated he should start with repetition so he can gain SOME familiarity with how a certain number of cards feel, then build off that.

you can't just start hitting home runs if you can't even hold a bat.
The Dowser
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Fair enough.
Anyway you cut it, mastery of riffle work is a time consuming, life eating pursuit. I still think the better approach is to constantly stretch yourself.
Cliff Rusnick
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I don't disagree with any of that. I'm just not sure if you missed the part where I mentioned that once you have a feel for a specific number of cards, to then change to one less. Go back and forth between those, THEN build on it. It just feels like your disagreeing with something I didn't even say. . I've been stacking since 2004. This is how I learnt effectively
The Dowser
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Just putting forth an opinion... not looking to argue, or to make this about you...or me.

Quote:
On Mar 15, 2018, Cliff Rusnick wrote:
I've been stacking since 2004. This is how I learnt effectively


I've been stacking since 1990 but I'm not sure of the relevance to this thread.

I simply don't think there is anything wrong with Tahur's approach... and I don't necessarily think the: focus, master, "THEN build on it" approach is the best for riffle work.

I may be wrong, your advice may be right... but my long experience tells me that the narrow focus approach to riffle stacking can mire you down for years. Only by stretching yourself with constant variety can significant gains be made in anything resembling a timely manner.
Gamblingman007
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Both of you guys don’t have to be wrong because y’all have different approaches. Remember Beta and VHS tapes, they both were different approaches to the same idea that showed movies on tapes. There were always arguments which one was the best. I’ll try both and my own way of which I just consistently riffle a half a pack of cards determining how many cards are left on my thumb. I’ll do that with each hand until I get it consistently right; while trying both of y’all ways at the same time.

The Gamblingman007
Cliff Rusnick
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Dowser, I simply mentioned when I started stacking so that you wouldn't think I just read something in a book and thought I knew what I was talking about, but didn't really.

as long as you understand what I was saying, I'm fine if you oppose that opinion. this is by no means an argument, I just wasn't sure if you read what I said carefully enough since what you wrote at first: "only concentrate on stacking to a certain number" implied that I was telling him to only stack for one number seemingly indefinitely.

in stacking literature, it even mentions holding back a certain number till you can do it with some accuracy, then trying to move up. I also believe something was mentioned about stacking one less for ease as well.

i'm sure there's no wrong way to practice stacking, I think you just ruffled some feathers a bit because you made it seem like it was bad advice instead of just adding your own advice.

Gamblingman, that seems like the best way to do it. take a little something from every pool, I'm sure you'll find your own method that works best for you either way.
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