|
|
|
|||
Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts 
|
Again, thinking of the casual magi's context - which of these is false:
A) If they're not wondering how you did it, the trick wasn't strong enough B) If they're wondering how you did it, you weren't entertaining enough |
andrea.corelli Regular user Milano area, Italy 107 Posts
|
Very interesting thread!
Does the question work with crossing the two conclusions? A) If they're not wondering how you did it, you weren't entertaining enough B) If they're wondering how you did it, the trick wasn't strong enough I would say both these are true and both your initial sentences sound wrong to me. Makes sense?
In the avatar... I am the one falling
|
Black Hart Elite user Scottish Highlands 475 Posts
|
If you present your 'magic' as a 'trick' - I do this, then this and this happens, look how clever I am - then your audience will wonder how you did it.
If however you present your 'magic' as a story, and you do so in an interesting, entertaining and engaging manner, then your audience will be so engrossed with the story, they will be entertained, mystified, and not even think about 'how' you did it. In bizarre magic we aim for the reaction, 'how did that happen?' (what strange forces were involved) rather than 'how did they do that?' Keith Hart
Black Artefacts, manufacturer and dealer of weird, bizarre and psychic magic: www.blackhart.co.uk
|
funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9988 Posts
|
I have some experienced thoughts, but do not accept either statement as a valid premise. Two many assumptions,
including that "powerful magic" and "entertainment" or antipodes or some dialectic. even accepting these statements, both can be true or both false, or I want (C) or (D) Somewhere in here is an idea worth exploring ...
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts
|
I'm not sure I understand this, but of course I'll comment anyway.
Some number of people will be wondering how it was done, no matter what. Some other number of people will not wonder, no matter what. So, I don't think it says anything about the magic if you don't have a universal response either way. It also depends upon how you present the magic. Some people present magic as puzzles. For some, it's a challenge to the audience. Some like to create a mystical atmosphere. Some (Penn & Teller) always present magic as fake, while others (Kreskin) always present it as real. All these approaches elicit different audience responses. For me, the fun is in presenting it as something we all know is a deception, and we're all in on the game. Some of my patter even talks about how what I appear to be doing isn't really happening. I talk about cheating, and will say, "That's because I cheated," or "No, I haven't cheated yet, but watch carefully." I will play it as a game, and that naturally causes people to wonder how things are being done. I learned this from watching "honest" magicians. Johnny Ace Palmer impressed me by telling a bad joke while he does a pass, then saying, "That was a terrible joke, but it covered a pass." Wow! And Pop Haydn inspired me with his lines about telling a lie during every performance, and how you can't always trust him ("What have we learned? We've learned that you can trust Pop, but you have to know when.") All these approaches actually inspire the audience to try to figure out what you're doing. We all know that I'm trying to fool you and you're trying to catch me, and the fun is in the game of cat and mouse. And I do present it as fun, and as a game. So, if I do it well, people are left wondering how it was done, as I actually invite them to try and catch me.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
|
|
Bob G Inner circle 2832 Posts
|
Hi Dana, I don't have enough experience to reply to what you said, but of course I'll respond anyway.
^2
Your description of what you do made me appreciate for the first time this style of magic where the magician baldly admits that it's all a deception -- no attempt to tell a story or as audience to suspend disbelief. And I had this thought... What if, a few times each show, you intentionally *allow* your spectators to catch you. Sounds like you're already doing fine, but I would think it would add to the zest if the audience gets to win occasionally. |
|
danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts
|
Quote:
On May 10, 2018, Bob G wrote: I kind of do that, I think, but in a sucker way. For me it's important that the audience never gets to win. My stand-up opener, for instance, is a four Ace production bit from Steve Valentine, where I brag about what an amazing card manipulator I am, and tell them to watch me produce four aces one at a time. With a huge flourish and lots of action I produce the first ace...except it's not an ace, it's an indifferent card. I've messed up! I don't even look at it, and act like I don't know I've produced the wrong card. Then I produce another "ace," which is an indifferent card again, and a third "ace" that is also an indifferent card, doing it all like I think I'm great but am actually messing up royally and don't realize it. The audience "catches" the mistakes, but I do not. Finally, I produce the fourth ace, and it is an actual ace. Then, when I call their attention to the three indifferent cards in my other hand, the cards have magically turned into aces, and I'm holding all four aces. Ta-da! I then upbraid the audience. "Yes, they really are the four Aces, of course! What did you expect? Wait, you thought I was messing up and none of you said anything? You were just going to hang me out to dry; let me look like a fool the whole act and not even tell me? I see how you guys are! Well, I'm going to have to up my game." It's funny and gets a laugh because of course they were going to hang me out to dry and not say anything, and I called them on it. It's all done with a wink and the game is on! Is that the kind of thing you're talking about?
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
|
|
Bob G Inner circle 2832 Posts
|
No, but I like it a lot. You must be a good performer: it's the kind of thing that could go wrong and insult people, or could be really fun and bring people together, and it sounds like you're able to skillfully do the latter. It's like when my daughter was young (I imagine most parents do this kind of thing:), and I'd hold her doll on top of my head and say, "Where's Mrs. Bear?" and look left and right. And she'd laugh uproariously because -- well, for whatever reason kids laugh at things. Maybe she knew that I really knew where Mrs. Bear was, but she also liked the pretense that she was had knowledge that I didn't.
I guess what I was thinking was that you could actually give your audience a chance to catch you at something, sort of like a sucker trick without the sucker part. For instance, maybe you allow them to "accidentally" see that you've palmed something in order to bring about one step of an effect. The effect as a whole would be a mystery, but the audience would actually get to win in that one step. You could do something silly like have a board up and put a gold star on it every time they caught you. Of course, you don't want to give away secrets, but I figure everyone knows that magicians palm things, so you're not really giving anything away. Just a random thought! Bob |
|
danaruns Special user The City of Angels 808 Posts
|
Quote:
On May 10, 2018, Bob G wrote: Interesting thought, but not for me. I subscribe to the belief that magic must be perfect in order to be magical. That if one move is detected, the entire effort fails. Also, the fun for the audience is in the chase, not in the catching. Much like a dog chasing a car, the pursuit is the fun part, but when he catches the car there's not much fun left.
Great idea, though. Just not for me.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
|
|
Bob G Inner circle 2832 Posts
|
I get it. Nice dog analogy. At my early stage in magic-- especially since I'm a perfectionist in certain areas, including magic -- I need to work very hard on *not* being perfect. Otherwise I'll never perform for anyone.
Bob |
| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Which of these is false? (4 Likes) | |
Posted: May 6, 2018 07:14 am 
| [ Top of Page ] |
|
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.03 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
|
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < 
|