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Elknase New user 50 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-04-26 22:50, turnerhooch wrote: I sense the big deal with the pass is the difficulty to master the sleight. The pass is a very difficult move to master. It is no better or worse than other sleights but only different. Use the right tool for the job to be done. If it is a pass or a 'hamster-double-up-the-ladder-undercut' doesn't really matter in the end. If you've acheived what you wanted you probably have applied the right sleight — regardless of its difficulty to execute. |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
There is no invisible pass,unnless your are Brian Who Dazzled some 3year old kid and his father with his invisible pass and classic force
Whop-dee -doo ..........Right.. the natives will be singing folk songs about your pass for years to come. |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
IF your style of performing is to have little if any excess motion and you also have a VERY light touch with the props, THEN the pass is hard to beat. At least I have found it so.
From experience, I can also agree that once the attention goes to the cards, and away from the entertainment and the audience, there will likely be something noticed, especially if the performer handles things using any force or tension in their hands. Perhaps we can agree that in GENERAL for MOST performers the pass is like using jackhammer to set a nail. As with any general rule, there will be exceptions. Let's enjoy the exceptions too. No argument about the skill of entertaining being FAR more useful than a card shift. I would gladly trade doing any sleight of hand with cards for the knowledge and practice of how to entertain. Not a bad trade in my book... the Svengali deck is a great tool and there are some great packet tricks that use no sleights. Being honest about what he wishes for, Jonathan
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Richard Lucas Special user TX fornow- MemberMagicCastle'65-'88 737 Posts |
Check out the "Hit Pass" by Neo. It is discussed here on another thread and has a url for a teaching video -
IT'S FREE! There is a slowmotion video also to help with the technigue. I witnessed Bill Palmer performing this slight, I could not see anything and I was only 6" from his hands, no misdirection it looks like he is just riffling the deck. An amazing pass and the best that I have ever seen except by Dai Vernon.
"The only difference between a Card Cheat and a Magician is that the Magician shows off.".......... Jay Ose 1965
Dicklucas |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Richard:
I wasn't doing the Hit pass. I was doing a modified version of the Stroboscopic Riffle Pass from the Derek Dingle book. Thanks for the vote of confidence, though.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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vinsmagic Eternal Order sleeping with the fishes... 10957 Posts |
I second the hot pass Neo does a teriffic job
vinny |
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NeoMagic Inner circle I have... 2017 Posts |
Richard, thanks also for the vote of confidence - whatever you saw!
Thanks, Vinny. Keep up the good work. See my web site for more info on the Hit Pass. There's further details and discussion in a Secret Sessions thread (linked from my site).
See and download my latest free card-suits-themed desktop wallpaper | HERE
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-04-27 03:17, Partizan wrote: I think you may have answered your own question! **Cardmen** DON'T disrespect the Pass. Steven Youell |
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Roland Henning Special user Kiel, Germany 511 Posts |
I used the pass, but I don't feel there is a need for that in my show, anymore.
I simply cut to the break. If done correctly, it will pass suspicion, because the attention should not be on the cards, but on the spectators. mmG Roland |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Don't feel too bad. We just recently found out that he Hermann or reverse classics pass is in fact a Hofzinser thing. I would not be too surprised if my super secret- just me and Ken Krenzel handling turns out to be one of the Hofzinser original handlings from just about two hundred years ago.
It gets interesting when the facts and history are exposed to the present.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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DaveM Special user Germany 788 Posts |
I love it when magicians criticize and subsequently "write off" sleights that they can't pull off. Same thing goes for the tabled faro....most magicians can't do it so they write it off as being completely useless. I can do the perfect tabled faros all day...but would trade that in a second for a good riffle pass.
I've only been in magic for about three years, and unfortunately I find many magicians I've met to act rather "childish" in regards to sleights that they can't pull off. I can't do the riffle pass to save my life, but still have a great deal of respect for the sleight and more importantly to those who can pull it off smoothly. Its VERY humbling to go the the magicvideodepot and see teenagers flawlessly pulling off the riffle pass. Peter Duffie even sent me an MPEG once of him explaining the riffle pass slowly....still blew my mind. DaveM |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts |
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On 2004-05-04 19:14, Jonathan Townsend wrote: Well, I'm not going to credit it to Hofzinser based on one or two sentences in a handwritten letter...because the second you get everyone calling it "The Hofzinser Pass" then we'll find out that HE got it from someone ELSE! Where does the madness end? Steven Youell |
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Euan Inner circle 1041 Posts |
The source...
Euan |
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Steven Youell V.I.P. 3866 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-05-05 12:25, Euan wrote: Well, unless you have a way to track down a particular sleight all the way back to when playing cards were first invented, then you'll never be sure of the real "source". Steven Youell |
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Euan Inner circle 1041 Posts |
No, but it's foolish to discount new information regarding an earlier precident to any particular idea.
Unless you (by 'you' I mean anyone) pay no particular importance to crediting or magical history. Euan |
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Paul Sherman Inner circle Arlington, VA 1511 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-05-05 15:34, Euan wrote: Re: sleights We don't just credit for the sake of crediting, we do it so that we can chart the development of magical ideas. Just because Hofzinser did a reverse-style pass doesn't mean he should get the credit. He chose to keep the move close to his vest. That's a fine choice, but it risks having someone else reinvent the move. If the person who reinvents the move gets it into the published record first, they win. This is altogether fitting and proper, because the person who publishes is the person who contributes to the development of the art. We also credit so that we have a common vocabulary. When I say "Hermann Pass", I'm not so much interested in give Hermann his due, I'm more interested in conveying information about which particular sleight I'm using. Even if we discovered that Hermann STOLE the pass from Hofzinser, at this point, the name is valuable on its own. Sometimes uniformity and predictability have to be valued over correctness. Stare Decisis. Crediting and magical history are important, but they are not the be all and end all. We have other things we have to value as well. Magic is more than just an academic exercise, it's a practical undertaking, a craft. So while it may be foolish to ignore new historical information, it's just as foolish to unsettle established precident in the interest of providing credit to a person who is both long dead and didn't seek credit in the first place. Paul
"The finished card expert considers nothing too trivial that in any way contributes to his success..." Erdnase
some youtube videos |
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Nikodini Regular user 195 Posts |
I use pass less and less. When I was younger, I practiced pass a few hours a day until I could do it fairly well. Then I started making very quick passes and tried to do as many as possible in minute. What a waste of my time! I'm yet to see a trick that absolutely requires a pass. Give me a trick that you think must use a pass and I'll show you a simpler version without a pass. I'm with Mike Ammar on this one.
As to "invisible pass"... hahaha. That's just snake oil and stay away from a "card expert" that's trying to sell you that. I actually have a list of 120+ passes! Yes, there's actually that many passes out there. |
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Tony Noice Veteran user 342 Posts |
Nikodini,
There are many tricks that can only be done with the pass, if you want to retain the strength of the original effect. For example, near the end of an ambitious card routine, many experts turn the card face up and have it come to the top. You can see many examples on magic depot, or just go to Peter Duffie's website. The face up card actually seems to melt up through the others. Of course, you could substitute a side slip and slap a la Leipzig, but the picture is different. And there are dozens of other ways. So you are right when you say a simpler version could get the same overall effect, but it would not necessarily be as visually stunning . |
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sir_hugo Regular user 104 Posts |
Huh. My second-to-last phase in Ambitious is the card face up, but I use tilt and the Erdnase/Houdini colour change.
My version of Out Of This World uses a classic pass, however. Tom |
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Hideo Kato Inner circle Tokyo 5649 Posts |
It's a good idea to switch two halves by Turn Over Pass, as turning over the cards is a natural handling. Now I got a new practical use of Pass. Thank you.
Hideo Kato |
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