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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
As I understand it the Kuma Tubes are as follows... Two tubes stacked within each other that are shown empty one at a time and then when stacked together items are 'produced' from them culminating in the production of a bowl. The bowl is then shown to be two big to fit the narrower of the two tubes but when covered with the outer tube the inner tube now somehow now fits over it. Additions to this routine are the additional productions of items from the now stacked tubes and the vanish of the bowl from within them.
This is what I think of as being the Kuma Tubes. There is however a variation where the tubes can both shown empty at the start at the same time, then they are stacked and the table cloth on the tableon which they are standing is drawn through the tubes. Then the routine proceeds as per my first description. Does this second variant have a different name? Is there someone still making this variation? In a similar vein I also remember seeing a spate of magic competition acts, back in the 90's, using a similar production prop.... It consisted of one tube and a circular stand/table with a cloth over it. The stand/table looked a bit like a small version of one of those platforms that elephants performed their balancing tricks on in circuses of a bygone age. The tube was shown empty, placed on the table and the cloth was drawn through the tube. Various items were then produced. Given that I saw this performed by several different acts in various magic competitions over the period of a few years I surmise that it must have been a reasonably well known manufactured item at the time. Does anyone know what this was called or who the manufacturer might have been? Thanks in advance for any help and info.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
The last description is called the Westgate Bowl production. Named after the inventor and craftsman who made it. I believe Aldini made a version, U.F. Grant/Mak Magic also made the Aldini version, using your Elephant stand description. And there was another version I believe.
None are being made currently. I think you are combining Westgate in your 2nd discription with the Kuma Tubes. Grant/Mak Magic also made a small version of the Kuma Tubes that were worked in the hands. They called it Nu-Way Kuma Tubes. This had flanges sticking out in the opening so it would not fall over the small glass fish bowl. Several years ago, China made some very nice looking full size real Kuma Tubes and sold them on eBay, and on a China Magic prop website. They were only like $350 at the time. I so wanted to get a set. They sold fast, and never offered them again to my knowledge. |
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AllanK Loyal user Australia 212 Posts |
Neal,
I have a set of Kuma Tubes by Supreme Magic that fits your understanding of the trick exactly. The tubes are beautifully plated, and the final load is a glass fish bowl filled with water and fish. Tommy Cooper did a very funny spot with this on one of his TV shows. The variant you mention was sold by International Magic Studio under the name Matinelli's Spectacular Finale. The load consisted of 12 self-opening colourful parasols that filled the stage. The catalogue I have is from the late 80's - the price for the production was 450 pounds. I don't know if they still stock this item. I hope that is of some help. Allan |
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AllanK Loyal user Australia 212 Posts |
Bill,
The Matinelli Production I mention is indeed a stage-size floor standing version of the wonderful Westgate Bowl - so both you and Neal are recollecting correctly! Regards, Allan |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Bill gave you some good information, BUT (HEE HEE) The Westgate Bowl (I have one, made by Hamilton) who made those wonderful JoAnn Ducks) was, according to Jon Racherbaumer, named after a street, near the old Mazda Magic Shop, in suburban Chicago! Jon lived near Mazda. I can't imagine why a PROP was named after a STREET (!) but then. why are the Chinese Sticks, called "Chinese" when they "came" from India???
P.S. I also have a Gwendolyn Duck. --I just sold my JoAnn. I'm willing to sell my Westgate Bowl. It has never been used. Jay and I were standing in the wings, watching the late De Yip Loo, performing the KUMA TUBES. Loo performed it, beautifully. Jay had a tear in his eye, as he whispered, "No one else should be ALLOWED to do the KUMA TUBES!" My eyes were a bit damp, too, as I agreed.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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AllanK Loyal user Australia 212 Posts |
Thanks for sharing that wonderful memory, Dick. I recall that De Yip Loo produced mountains of silks and an enormous oriental metal jar which vanished at the climax of the trick. The tube that was "too small" was allowed to fall on the floor when placed over the jar to point up the fact that it was too small. It was also performed on a thin square oriental table of a size that only just held one tube, making the nesting of the tubes seem natural. All very subtle!
Dick, I take it that your Warren Hamilton Westgate Bowl does not have the totally unnecessary legs that were later added by Aldini to make the "improved" Westgate Bowl. Or did Hamilton manufacture the improved model too? I'm just curious about the pedigree of this trick. Allan |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Hi AllanK!
You have a good memory! --and, good tastes, too (unnecessary legs). Loo didn't do it in every show, so, many never had the opportunity to see his superb presentation! When I first met Loo, in 1954, he was on a school assembly tour, and, the high school group was enjoying his magic, and his humor! THEN, he announced that he would tell the ancient fairytale of "Goldilocks and the three bears". ! The h I g h s c h o o l kids, had strange looks on their faces!!! Then, since he was working in a Mandarin robe, he said that he would tell the story in his native language. (Loo, of course, was born in HongKong.) They started chuckling at the first sentence, and the laughs got bigger and louder. Even the teachers had tears in their eyes, from laughing. It was absolutely HILARIOUS! Yes, As AL BAKER, once said, "Many a good trick has died of improvements." The Westgate Bowl, of course, needed an assistant. Aldini added the legs, which made it a one man trick. (Al was right!) I never have heard of Warren Hamilton's Westgate having legs.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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jimgerrish Inner circle East Orange, NJ 3209 Posts |
Rectangular tubes for performing the Kuma Tubes routine are easily made as shown in my Hardboard and Duct Tape Magic Book One, item #8 "Production Tubes." Converting a table to perform Howard Westgate's 1939 (both the principle and trick are named after HIM, not a street) deceptive load mechanism is also easily made, either using the methods shown in my "Magic House of Mystery" described in Hardboard and Duct Tape Magic Book Two, item #2, OR in the "WAH Production Box" from The Wizards' Journal #10, item #9.
Jim Gerrish
magicnook@yahoo.com https://www.magicnook.com Home of The Wizards' Journals: https://magicnook.com/wizardsTOC.htm |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Hmmmm! I aint getting old, I AM old! I know Jon Racherbaumer wouldn't lie. Somehow, I must have misunderstood him.
Abbott's advertised an "illusion" called "Mignon", in catalogs in the '40s, IIRC~! It used the 'elevator' concept. I always mentally listed the Westgate Bowl with the Mignon. I'm not a "craft" guy~~! The only prop I've ever "built" was a cardboard variation of Grant's Temple Screen, from an old "TOPS Magazine"!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Julie Inner circle 3936 Posts |
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On May 19, 2018, Dick Oslund wrote: This "elevator" discussion reminds me of Abbott's CABINET OF FOO: A beautiful self-working table top apparatus for producing a ton of silks etc. This is one of those props that my husband bought and kept for display only. He never intended to use it (Merv Taylor's TAMBO was designated our big silk production), but was enamored of it's beauty and cleverness. Thanks for reminding me of this. ('sorry for getting off-topic.) Julie |
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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
Thank you all for your responses so far. They have been very helpful.
I am still not sure though if this and this would go under the name 'Kuma Tubes' or if it is called something else? As Bill correctly says, it appears to be a combination of the Kuma Tubes and the methodological mechanics of Westgate Bowl production. Of course these props might be one-off builds and have no name as such. Finally, I can't seem to find anything on the props I saw being used by a number of performers in various magic competitions back in the 90's (as described in my OP) . It was obviously some a variation on the Westgate bowl production but there was definitely no tray involved. There was just the table/platform covered with a cloth and the tube through which the cloth was pulled and the production of various items. Any info on what this was called and who might have manufactured it would be most welcome. As the performances I saw using this prop were all in the UK at the IBM British Ring Shield competition I suspect it might be that this piece of apparatus was manufactured by a British magic company. Many thanks again for your responses.
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
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AllanK Loyal user Australia 212 Posts |
Neal, I'm pretty sure that the Matinelli production that I described before is the one you are describing. It was very popular in the 90s and sold by International Magic. It consisted of a platform table covered with a cloth with just one tube on top. The cloth was pulled up through the tube and then the main production was made. It came with a dozen parasols. I have the full page advertisement in front of me - I'll try to scan it and attach it to another post. Thanks for the links to the video clips.
Allan |
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AllanK Loyal user Australia 212 Posts |
Neal, I've never attached a file on the Café before, so here goes! This is the advertisement for the Matinelli Spectacular Finale. There's no photograph, only a drawing. I hope this helps.
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AllanK Loyal user Australia 212 Posts |
OK, that didn't work! I have it as a JPEG file, but it's not listed in the acceptable files format. Neal, if you PM me your email address, I'll email you the copy.
Allan |
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Sealegs Inner circle The UK, Portsmouth 2596 Posts |
AllenK, I don't know how, but I somehow must have missed that part of your earlier post that mentioned the Martinelli Spectacular Finale!
I am convinced that you have nailed this on the head for me and solved this particular issue. I say this as I was sure that the production items consisted, in large part, of may parasols. So thank you for re-stating this in your post above and apologies for somehow missing it first time I read through the thread. That's nearly every aspect answered from the collective help of you all so thank you again for that. I've been doing more research on the combination of the Kuma Tubes and cloth covered table that the Westgate Bowl Production methodology that was also part of the Martinelli Spectacular Finale. (See my links to Paul Daniel's and Mario Hueta in my post above) However I can't find any reference to these items other than those two video clips. But as I said, maybe they were one-off custom made props?
Neal Austin
"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw |
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Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
If it is the umbrella production advertised in The Gen magazine, then it was listed in the 1970's. I use to get Gen that later turned into Info magazine. I only remember them adverting the Spectacular Production and umbrella's tube for several months. I so wanted to get both of them. They gave no info, so or even a real picture, so had no info on the table/stand. I still have my Gen and Info, but they are buried under a lot of magazines and books.
Allan K. is correct, only line drawings back then and very little text. It was still enough to get me excited. I was comparing it to the Abbott's Umbrella production at the time. Abbott's, I think used a Phantom Tube design, they never had any made up in their show room, so really had nothing to compare it to. Those to International Magic effects, reasonability prices as well, only around $300, which was a bargain I thought at the time. |
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Quote:
On May 19, 2018, Julie wrote: Yes...Now that you've reminded me, I do remember the CABINET OF FOO. It was another "elevator" box with drop down doors, like an English Die Box. It would have been a "challenge" to pack!!!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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Dick Oslund Inner circle 8357 Posts |
Quote:
On May 20, 2018, Dick Oslund wrote: I first saw Harry Blackstone Senior, use a TAMBOR, in his opening flower/silk routine. I used a Tambor for many years. I had to red light it when I started touring for the school assembly bureaus. --It took 5 minutes to load it!
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
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AllanK Loyal user Australia 212 Posts |
You're welcome Neal! And it's led to a lot of interesting discussion and reminiscing, so thanks for raising the topic.
Bill, I too was very excited with the description of the Spectacular Production. I visited International Studios in London in the late 80's. You had to go down a "mysterious" staircase to get to the magician's studio. I met both Ron and Martin MacMillan there. They sold many great illusions that they manufactured in their own workshop - in fact, I purchased a broomstick levitation from them that is built like a Sherman tank and is still going strong after 30 or more years! Alas, they no longer stock illusions. In those days, the exchange rate between pounds and Australian dollars was terrible, so the Matinelli production would have cost over $1000, which was way out of my price range at that time. And yes, Bill, the Magic Info magazine would definitely have had the advertisement as it was International Magic's house magazine - with very irregular publication deadlines if I recall correctly! Incidentally, I converted the image that I have of the Matinelli advertisement to a pdf file, but the file size is too big to attach. So if anyone wants me to send them a copy, PM me your email address and I'll send it to you. By the way, the correct name for this is Matinelli, not Martinelli, but the advertisement uses both spellings! Somewhere I also have a photograph of a Dutch (?) magician who has just produced the umbrellas using this apparatus. I'll look for it, but don't hold your breath! Allan |
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JNeal Inner circle I used to have 999 posts, now I have 1617 Posts |
As a side note, the shifing load priciple that is incorporated in the “tabletop kuma tubes” goes back to the 1920’s at least. , I recall seeing an advert. For the Mignon ( meaning : little) Cabinet in an old Janos Bartl ad. It was for the production of a girl.. a small stage illusion . Okito manufactured a Mignon box using a shifting load box sometime thereafter.
In my opinion, using the two tubes ( as in the Kuma Tubrs version) rather than a single tube ( as in the Matinelli version) is superior in concept. With a single tube, the audience might associate the pulling up of the cloth ( through the tube) with the subsequent production. By showing the two tubes empty AFTER the cloth being pulled up, we break the mental connection between cause and effect.... making for a better mystery.
visit me @ JNealShow.com
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