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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts 
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Oh, and I knew Jerry Andrus personally. We, of course, did magic for each other when we spent time together. Ready for this? I fooled him with the controls (plus) that I mention above.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts
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Harry,
Again here, I think it is the way you do your controls which deeply convince your audience that their card is lost. It is not a matter of method or technique. Even when I know what you are doing, I’m still fooled because if you were really losing their card, it’s exactly the moves you would use. |
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts
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We would say « nonchalance dynamique » in french, which is pretty the same words in English. It works so well with your style.
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Yowie_ New user 59 Posts
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Harry,
Thanks for your reply, it's an honor to butt heads with such a legendary head-butt-er. I'll not dwell on the ego self-massage (as hilarious and as it is), but come on now - you really are fooling yourself if you think a couple cuts and shuffles, done by a *magician, someone known to have advanced card control skills, actually convinces a spectator that their card is lost. A double undercut and an in-jog OH shuffle did not fool any of those intelligent people for whom you performed. You used those techniques in routines that fooled them, sure, but those shuffles were not what fooled them (if they were pressed to think and say they were fooled). If any of those clever people you mentioned tried to reconstruct your effect, they would logically and correctly reason that you did not truly lose the card. They *know* you controlled it, knew exactly where it was all along, or somehow identified and retrieved it later - because you later effortlessly found it. A convincing illusion may have been created, but even a perfect illusion need not fool anybody. That reminds me, I'll just take a break from the magic and dip back into reality for a moment. You might not believe me, but I met the real Santa Claus at the mall a few years ago, the old man had a troupe of elves and I even fed the flying reindeer! He promised me a full set of Apocalypse for Christmas. Ok, back to illusion and deception. The impossible is not possible, and a magician does not rely on the highly improbable. Spectators - humans - aren't stupid (well... you know what I mean), they know the magician controls the situation. Even we magicians have all been utterly fooled, deep-fried and brain-melted six ways to Sunday by effects using a double undercut - and none of us were actually fooled by the double undercut and false shuffles themselves. --- We present card magic in a very different way. Say we each perform the same effect to a spectator, say it's one of those pick-a-card tricks you rarely perform, and we each control their selection in our own ways. I - using DPS, convincing control, turnover pass, whatever is appropriate, invisible, undetectable - create the illusion of doing nothing at all, you - using a double undercut and false shuffles - create the illusion of thoroughly mixing the deck. The vast majority of our spectators will remember our effects in exactly the same way, presentation aside, but a few will think about the tricks later and have a pretty dang good idea of what happened in your trick - at least the understand that you controlled (instead of lost) their card. Those few, the ones for which I put in some extra effort, won't know where to start reconstructing my trick. They have nothing to go on, only an experience of a deeply impossible event. --- You may have literally fooled the pants off Jerry Andrus, but it sure as heck was not your double undercut and injog OH shuffle that did the fooling, regardless of how convincing an illusion your execution of those controls created. He knew what you were doing, more, less, or maybe exactly - controlling his card (or whatever cards). I'll sign off with two quotes from Andrus Card Control that show that Mr. Andrus and I think alike: "The sleights are designed for the spectator to be LOOKING AT THE HANDS AND THE CARDS WHEN THE ACTION HAPPENS. The sleights are designed to get the MOST POSSIBLE EFFECT with the LEAST POSSIBLE VISIBLE MOTION..." (page 6) "I'm not talking about stripping [the cards] out with a hindu-shuffle type multiple shift or a series of double undercuts, or any type of shuffles. I'm talking about getting [the cards]... onto the top (or where have you) without a cut or shuffle while the spectators watch, and without their being aware that you have done anything." (page 7) |
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liamwilson1125 New user 90 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2018, heavyspirit wrote: This is a bit off topic so we should stay with the controls then haha. Btw your opinion is warmly welcome. |
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liamwilson1125 New user 90 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2018, Yowie_ wrote: Very much thank you for your recommendations and ideas. I have performed double undercut and false shuffles to people who even have seen magic before and they are still fooled as they don't really know what my act really is at the beginning. But yes I do agree the point that people will get to know your controls if they have seen/been demonstrated these moves before. |
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liamwilson1125 New user 90 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2018, Harry Lorayne wrote: Hello Harry, how are you doing? Thank you for having a look at my topic. We magicians, fool each other/intelligent laymen by the effects rather than the methods/controls. This is also what I did bring into my act for over a decade. If I see the spectators are smart enough, I will focus on the end-effect or let them do everything (self-working). |
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Yowie_ New user 59 Posts
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Hi Liam,
You are so right, and have communicated what I wished to communicate in a much calmer and more agreeable way 
I want to leave no avenues for reconstruction so I prefer controls that appear to have not allowed for any control to happen. If there are cuts and shuffles, my view is that the trick is more likely to be seen as a puzzle to solve. I hope to leave no way to approach the effect as a puzzle by leaving no puzzle pieces. Perhaps I am trying to work for both laymen and magicians at the same time. Here's a great technique, published in Arthur H. Buckley's Card Control (page 51 - thanks to the folks in the linked thread) as the 'Domico Control' ('D'amico' is the correct spelling) but was recently marketed as the DJ Control: http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&start=0 It's like an anti-control. Spectator selects a card, returns it to the deck, you square up, and hand the deck to them to shuffle and shuffle all they like. Though the card's position is controlled by their shuffling, you will always be able to quickly locate the card in the deck and are one surreptitious move away from having the card wherever you like. This class of "controls" is a favorite of mine. Besides not leaving any puzzle pieces, it involves the spectator by getting the deck in their hands without any restrictions. Go on, cowboy, mix thems cards up as much as ya like. Make it hard for me
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liamwilson1125 New user 90 Posts
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Thanks Yowie. I had the book of Buckley on my shelf and honestly I did not realize this control was there (maybe I did read through it and did not remember at all). Thanks again.
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Terrible Wizard Inner circle 1973 Posts
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This thread has just given an idea for a control ... interesting!
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liamwilson1125 New user 90 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2018, Terrible Wizard wrote: Indeed it is. There are million ways to control a card out there and it is not easy to find a suitable one. That's why this thread is opened for everyone and warmly welcome all of your contributions 
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Hudson892 Regular user Sheffield, UK 103 Posts
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So many great controls, but the dribble pass takes the cake in my mind. One of the best controls of all time, up there with Miller cascade and TPC
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kShepher Elite user Washington, DC 470 Posts
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Yowie...you have to be kidding.
Yes, it's not going to fool magicians, but laymen? It will fool 99% of them. People don't know about cards anymore. A small percentage, yes. I'm not a pro, but when I do jogs they don't have a clue. |
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Yowie_ New user 59 Posts
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KShepher,
I am certainly not kidding! I take this seriously and perform in a particular style. It's not Harry's style. While we could simply agree to disagree, I think we can agree and learn from each other's perspectives here, so I am putting in some effort here to communicate what I feel to be a valuable concept in this art. Please, consider this example (even try it!) - like an abbreviated ACR, an effect I do not typically perform: Approach a willing subject and have them freely select a card. Insert the card into the middle of the deck and control it to the top or bottom using a double undercut and retain it there with any appropriate shuffle. Ask if they believe the card to be lost in the middle of the deck somewhere. Most will say yes, but some, as they consider the situation critically, will say no - you are a magician, and thus have surely put the card on the top, bottom, or otherwise kept it under your control, and they are already bored and unimpressed. Reveal the card to now be on top. Go through this procedure again. The spectators who previously believed the card to be lost will no longer believe it to be lost. You have proven your ability to control the cards and any cuts and shuffles are understood to potentially be controls. There is no surprise that it is on top - this is obvious. Not only that, but when you cut and shuffle, there is a 1/52 chance that the selected card will end up on top anyways. When you cut and shuffle, you are only creating the improbable. Critical thinkers will not take long to understand this. Finally, you use some sort of no-apparent-movement control. Say tilt, bluff pass or other undetectable/invisible pass, side steal, DPS / longitudinal swivel steal with top replacement, whatever - the main point being, all that apparently happens is the card is inserted. Now, they will be convinced that the card is in the middle. Reveal it to be on top and your spectator is thoroughly flummoxed. There is nothing to reconstruct. It's not a puzzle, there are no pieces to put together. This isn't even an impossibly improbable situation. It is simply *impossible*. --- Most spectators do not think critically about magic and for them, a double undercut and OH shuffle is absolutely sufficient and the types of controls I am talking about are pointless. But for critical spectators, double undercuts don't convince them of anything - they will scoff at it, almost insulted that the magician expects them to think the card to be lost and out of their control. They think, "I saw you put the card back in at the halfway point and then you cut to that point, and you say it's 'lost'? Don't waste my time." I know, because I was that spectator, have friends who are that spectator (despite very little exposure to magic), and have had that spectator in my audience many times. I aim to perform for laymen, including the critical thinkers, and fool the pants off them all. |
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AsL Special user 680 Posts
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A couple of my favorites:
Convincing Control (Ernest Earick) Ackerman Varies Kelly (in some specific instances, Allan Ackerman) The controls we should use and our favorite controls shouldn't always be the same. All the best, AsL |
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liamwilson1125 New user 90 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2018, AsL wrote: Thank you so much for your recommendations
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liamwilson1125 New user 90 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2018, Hudson892 wrote: Dribble pass is really a great move due to the speed and misdirection from the dribble action. Believe it or not I'm not confident to do any shift or any palming in my performance though I have played with the cards for more than a decade. |
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liamwilson1125 New user 90 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2018, Yowie_ wrote: I do agree with the examples Yowie. Critical audience will think somehow the card will stay at the position that the performer desires, no matter how simple (or sometimes tough moves) we have executed. For me (I hope it also happens to everyone), I will always consider who will be my audience first. Then the sleights and effects will follow. |
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Yowie_ New user 59 Posts
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That's a great point. As a musician, for example, you wouldn't play metal or gangsta rap for a classical musician... you might not preform for them at all. Thanks for something to think about
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Harry Lorayne 1926 - 2023 New York City 8558 Posts
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Been doing card magic for about 80 years, writing about it for about 60 years - have yet to use that move that "takes the cake" - the dribble pass!
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]
http://www.harrylorayne.com http://www.harryloraynemagic.com |
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| The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Your favourite control is? (28 Likes) | ||||||||||
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Posted: Jun 5, 2018 09:31 pm 
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