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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Coin Roll, at 71 years old am I too old to learn? (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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tejinajoka
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I want to do the coin roll, I have watched a couple of tutorials on YT and am struggling. 75% of the time I drop the coin between third finger and pinky. 50% of the time I can get the coin to third finger BUT very slowly. I hope to continue trying, but wonder if I will be dead before I can do it proficiently.
How long did it take other members to learn to do it well, I have seen on other posts that some learned in just 2 weeks!
Any comments or help with improvement REALLY appreciated.
If it's worth doing it's worth doing well. Philip Stanhope, 4th Earl of Chesterfield (U.K.) in 1746
magicalaurie
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For me the coin roll took a while to get secure. Dropping the coin between third finger and pinky was constant at first. Here's an early (silent) clip of mine:




I think I probably tried tipping my hand back toward me, making the coin climb uphill slowly to gradually acquire the ability to land it on my thumb (at the drop between third finger and pinky), to return to starting position.

I would say going for speed is misguided- one of the smoothest, most magical coin rolls I've seen was performed by Giacomo Bertini with, I think, a silver dollar. Earlier on, I found the coin roll more difficult with small coins, esp. dimes.

A slightly later clip of mine:

Consistent, daily if possible, practice and persistence will aid progression early on.

Once I had a smooth coin roll with my strong hand, I found it much easier to learn with the other, and ended up confident enough with the coin roll to perform it at the 33rd World Magic Seminar Close-Up Competition in Las Vegas in 2010.

It's a fun flourish that people really like- good luck! Smile
warren
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As already said its just practice stick with it.
tejinajoka
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Quote:
Magicalaurie wrote on June 4th 2018
For me the coin roll took a while to get secure. Dropping the coin between third finger and pinky was constant at first.


Nice clips, can see your progress in 2nd clip, and thanks for the tips
If it's worth doing it's worth doing well. Philip Stanhope, 4th Earl of Chesterfield (U.K.) in 1746
Tom G
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You might also try different size coins. You might find one easier to work with to learn.
Mb217
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2018, warren wrote:
As already said its just practice stick with it.


Yep! That's about the size of it. Smile

Welcome to the Café joka... Smile

When first learning the coin roll long time back now, I used to drop the coin as you did all the time, everywhere, but I rarely drop it anymore and absolutely surprise myself whenever I do, and honestly, it does happen sometimes. Smile Balancing the coin on the back of the hand was also an initial frustration for me. Back in the day, there were no videos (or even an "online" anything) to watch & learn from, so you sorta had to figure things out yourself, and I just couldn't figure out what I was doing wrong. Then after a long while, one day it hit me...I was letting the coin roll over the pinky finger instead of the 3rd finger... Smile That was my first step toward real progress, and actually it was nothing more than simple better understanding of what I was doing. Smile

Once you get the right actions happening, behind practicing it, you simply get better at it. It's pretty much the same old secret to anything really. Smile I used to challenge my son to see how many rolls we could do without dropping the coin. Smile From that fun with him as a boy, I just got better & better at it until it just became second nature to do it on a whim, just as something to do, like one of these new-fangled fidget spinners people play with nowadays. Smile Though I believe learning to do the coin roll is a much better waste of time. Smile

After a while, but still over some time, I came to make the coin roll forward and even backwards, even with any size coin, even a penny. Smile Then I actually could do it in both hands...with some speed to it, too. I'm actually doing it right now as I type (just kidding!). Smile But more importantly, I began slipping it into my magic as a sorta get-ready to it. Smile It instantly grabs people's attention and the next thing you know, you're into some magical moments. Smile After a while, in magic, you don't do it over and over like you learned it, you just do it once or twice and go on. Some magicians over-do it and or place it at gratuitous times in their magic and it just looks tedious and somewhat out of place... Don't do that! Smile

So, really, it's just practice, and like most others that can do it, you can do it too. And it won't take as long as you might think to get it down pretty good. You just gotta get the feel of it, which includes angling the hand some and developing momentum and the thumb action to catch the coin and keep it going over & over again. Smile

Now, when we get you through this, we'll start on flipping a deck of cards. Smile
*Check out my latest: Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Not much new under the sun I hear but under the moon, well who knows, that just might be a horse of a different color." -Mb Smile
magicalaurie
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2018, tejinajoka wrote:
Quote:
Magicalaurie wrote on June 4th 2018
For me the coin roll took a while to get secure. Dropping the coin between third finger and pinky was constant at first.


Nice clips, can see your progress in 2nd clip, and thanks for the tips


Thank you, and, you're welcome. Smile
Dick Oslund
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I met the late C. Thomas MAGRUM when I was 14. on November 18, 1946. Clem was an excellent sleight of hand magician. He showed me the coin roll. My 15th birthday was about 3 weeks later. An aunt presented me with a silver dollar! I darn near wore it out, walking to and from school!

I soon learned that the position of the hand was important. I learned to keep the back of my hand, relatively vertical, and, the hand about 6-8" from my chest. If the forearm is too horizontal, and the hand too far from the body, it's nearly impossible to keep the back of the hand vertical. If the hand is vertical, the third joint of the fingers can provide a relatively level surface. (Important!!)

Do not try to roll the coin too fast, at first.

I don't remember how long it took to get a nice even roll. There is no need to rush. With practice you'll be able to speed up a bit. Aim for smoothness.

The late Walter Gibson, who wrote, I think, more books about magic than anyone else, wrote a series of stories about, THE SHADOW. The stories soon became a very popular 30 minute radio program.

I was about 16 when I found a paper back book on a news stand. "The Shadow Annual". It was a collection of Shadow stories. I had learned that Walter Gibson was also a MAGICIAN. I bought the book.

One of the stories was about a magicians' club. In the story, Gibson talked about the magicians in the club. IIRC, one magician did illusions. Another was a Chinese magician, another did only sleight of hand. Gibson described him doing the coin roll, WITH FOUR HALF DOLLARS, SIMULTANEOUSLY!

I thought, "If he can do it, I'm going to learn that." It took a month of hard practice, but, I learned to do it! It became my "show off" bit.

Years later, I met Johnny Ace Palmer, at a magic auction in Ohio. He was the first young man who seriously asked me to show it to him. I did. Less than a month later, he phoned me to tell me that he could do it!

I do not have any video of me doing it Video cameras were quite new in the '70s. A number of (now) "old timers" have seen me do it. Now, at age 86, I can barely do the roll with one coin!

I found it well worth the practice time, as it was always a good "opener" for casual work.
































SHADOW.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
CarpetShark
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Besides just looking cool, a smooth coin roll can be a nice addition to a routine, e.g. CP a coin while doing the roll with that hand, showing the hand is 'empty'. Something I've been working on without ANY success...yet, is to CP a Half, perform a roll with an English penny, but instead of looping the copper up behind the fingers to start the next roll, it's the Half that gets to drop down the finger staircase... does this make any sense ? (I'm not exactly gifted in terms of self expression).

My point is this: imho the roll is more than a flourish, and anyone can do it if I can with enough time invested. I've been at it roughly three years, yet I still drop the dominant hand's coin now and then, more so with my 'recessive' hand Smile Age is no barrier my friend, I'm looking at sixty in the rear-view and don't plan to stop learning as much as possible. Besides, it's fun !
tejinajoka
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Thank you for the advice and tips. Practice, Practice and some more Practice is obviously the order of the day. I am doing about 10 minutes a day and the advice to take it slowly at first gives me some confidence. Nice to hear from members 'long in the tooth' at 86 years of age and 60 plus.
Any more tips or advice (except practice) gratefully received.
If it's worth doing it's worth doing well. Philip Stanhope, 4th Earl of Chesterfield (U.K.) in 1746
David Neighbors
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The hard part is when you start to do TWO !!! The Hand has to be flat !!! So you can hold one on top as you move one under! Smile And I have been doing a coin roll change for 40 years! it in my Coinjurering Vol.! Softbound book!
David Neighbors



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landmark
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I don't know why, but coin sleights always seem easier for me with the non-dominant hand.
"I use my five illusions to create the sense I'm useful to six."



You can read my daily blog at Musings, Memories, and Magic
Signet
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That coin roll takes much practice, but it also gives as much back. It will take your mind off your troubles. It relaxes you making that coin go around and around. Do it while you watch Tv. Hold your hand above your chest. If the coin falls, you can easily pick it up.
cperkins
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Here's a clever use of a coin roll integral to a routine.....

If you use a routine where you show two coins as one (holding out one coin), I use a nested [ and do a coin roll or two to introduce the coin. After a few coin rolls and some patter, I let the nested coin release from the [ (via gravity) allowing it to rest on my thumb while completing the roll and being brought up into view (bringing the coin up to complete the roll)...now I am one ahead, all looks natural (they see one coin with otherwise two empty hands during the intro), and I am ready to go with the routine.

I do have a simple way to re-nest the coins at the end to openly display only one coin throughout. Try this....its not as difficult as you might think.

chuck
To see a difficult thing lightly handled gives the impression of the impossible.
(Goethe)
CarpetShark
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Quote:
On Jun 8, 2018, David Neighbors wrote:
The hard part is when you start to do TWO !!! The Hand has to be flat !!! So you can hold one on top as you move one under! Smile And I have been doing a coin roll change for 40 years! it in my Coinjurering Vol.! Softbound book!


David, thanks for the tip on the coin roll change, I'll check that out. Can't seem to figure out myself how to smoothly un-palm the CP'd coin to replace it with the other...something like Mr. Roth's one handed change I'd assume....

I can't imagine rolling more than one at a time; my goal is to smoothly roll with both hands, and if possible, get that change in there as well. Thanks for replying to this thread.
Jonathan Townsend
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What coin are you trying to roll? Or more to my point, which of quarter / half / dollar is easier for you?

* was it Chesterton who write the line about a thing worth doing poorly?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
David Neighbors
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Your welcome man! And yea When I was Younger I used to do A 4 coin roll ! Smile
But that is not what I am doing Man! If you have the book look it up! If you need help P.M. Me!
David Neighbors



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mr_misdirection
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When I first learned the coin roll I found that the size of the coin was the key for me and could easily manipulate a £1 coin.

Like others I would constantly practice this and if I was just sat watching TV I would sit there performing coin rolls with each hand.
I then progressed to being able to use the coin roll to switch coins during a trick. Given it takes place in one hand iand so seamlessly it reduces the thought notion that something has switched.

But I digress......No you're never too young or old to learn anything in life. Keep up the practise.
CarpetShark
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David, I'll get your book: you should be compensated for your work, but I do appreciate the offer of help. A true gentleman.
David Neighbors
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Thanks Man! I just got it in as a PDF ! Smile But don't Have it up on my site yet! Smile For more info P.M. Me!!! Smile
David Neighbors



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