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Dr Rick New user Manchester, UK 72 Posts 
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I'm lucky enough to have a second hand version of Michael Ammar's cups and balls book.
In the appendix Eric Decamps talks about practicing with a one cup routine until his skills were up to a three cup. Has anyone much experience of this as a practice tool with one cup and would care to share? I'd appreciate any thoughts but prefer not to use a chopped cup as I've a nice non gaffed set Thanks in advance for your guidance Rick |
Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts
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I was hanging around the Fox Fun n Magic shop one day long ago. Karell Fox was one of the owners of the shop situated downtown Detroit. I visited it every Saturday. I saw Mr. Fox do many interesting things during these visits. One day a pretty lady came into the shop and Mr. Fox struck up a conversation. He did a one cup routine. Just a standard cup and maybe one or two balls. Can't remember. He had the lady put her finger on top of the cup each phase of the little routine. He did not go fast. The moves were very basic. In a way they were not moves at all. The effect on the woman was stunning.
I had become interested in mastering cups and balls. The person that introduced me to magic, Warren Stephens, told me early on that mastering the classics of magic would do well on the path to doing magic. I sought to master a sophisticated three cup routine. I found the moves daunting. I began with a single cup as Mr. Fox had demonstrated. The routine was as simple as it could be. Three vanishes and three small ball loads. Then a final large finish. I did that routine for a long time. It built courage for moving on which I eventually did. I, personally, can think of no better path. Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
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Dr Rick New user Manchester, UK 72 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 14, 2018, Al Schneider wrote: That sounds like the one to start on. I love the simplicity of the ungaffed cup and the "purity" of cups and balls though am very very much the interested amateur. Is there advice on a one cup routine in any of your books, or in any mainstream books I can lay my hands on? |
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Dr Rick New user Manchester, UK 72 Posts
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Is it the routine in "the theory and practice of false transfers"?
Rick |
pepka Inner circle Uh, I'm the one on the right. 5041 Posts
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Jonathan Kamm....who I really feel is the world's busiest close up magician does a very cool 1 cup 3 ball routine.
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Dr Rick New user Manchester, UK 72 Posts
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Thanks Pepka
I'll see if if can find it |
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Doug Arden Special user 886 Posts
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Dr Rick:
The One Cup Routine is in is 2015 Lecture Notes available here: http://jonathankamm.wixsite.com/kammagicshop/about2 |
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Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts
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Dr. Rick
The routine I presented in my post was done in 1962. Since then I have grown considerably and the routine in "Theory and Practice of False Transfers" is vastly more sophisticated. However, as far as good entertainment, it is not necessarily advanced. The book would be a very valuable read, however, I would suggest you master a good false ball transfer, cup single ball load, and final ball load. Information for this abounds in many places and there are at least 100 people on this forum that could lend a helping hand. After that, isolate yourself from magicians and work on it. Then, do it for non-magicians. You will fail. This is the path. But each failure is a lesson that is a light on the path of success. If you pursue, you will develop a routine that will become part of your soul for the remainder of your life. Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
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Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts
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Just for giggles, here is a clip of Luciano Ristori doing the routine from "The Theory and Practice of False Transfers.
https://youtu.be/8t2ChKwiCb4 Interestingly, Mr. Ristori is a physicist at Fermilab near Chicago and was part of a group locating a quark. I understand he is now investigating the properties of neutrinos. Impressive guy.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
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Dr Rick New user Manchester, UK 72 Posts
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[quote]On Jun 15, 2018, Al Schneider wrote:
Dr. Rick The routine I presented in my post was done in 1962. Since then I have grown considerably and the routine in "Theory and Practice of False Transfers" is vastly more sophisticated. However, as far as good entertainment, it is not necessarily advanced. The book would be a very valuable read, however, I would suggest you master a good false ball transfer, cup single ball load, and final ball load. Information for this abounds in many places and there are at least 100 people on this forum that could lend a helping hand. After that, isolate yourself from magicians and work on it. Then, do it for non-magicians. You will fail. This is the path. But each failure is a lesson that is a light on the path of success. If you pursue, you will develop a routine that will become part of your soul for the remainder of your life. Al Schneider [/quote Thanks Al Makes me want to get practicing I'd not tried a one cup routine (thus the question) and have been working through the routine in Mark Wilsons course but the one cup version does seem so immediate and less "stagey" Thanks for your advice Rick |
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts
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I bought your book on false transfers for that routine. I really like the use of 3 different colors of balls. While no harder, it somehow seems more magical. It disproves the idea of a fourth ball. Laymen are not as ignorant as some of us like to think.
My one issue with this routine is that it works best seated. That’s not me. And that’s why I’ve not done the work to learn it. If you have any suggestions as to how I could do a functional vanish standing up, I’d be grateful. Patrick |
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts
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Should note, I mean a vanish of 3 balls that leaves the hands empty. Not a simple request, I realize.
Patrick |
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Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts
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Mr. Woolery
I am a bit confused. The basic vanish in the book can be done in any position. And it works with people behind you. The only difference from sitting is the hand would not drop to a table top but drop a bit into what I call a half rest position. If you are referring to the final load, that is a different matter. Changing the routine a bit to get the final from pocket as in many routines would be reasonable. Also the twist by Dr. Rubinstein would not work standing. But this what we do. We modify. The focus of the book is on basic false transfers of coins and balls. I think I feel short a bit however on making the routines fit more circumstances. I have attempted to correct the problem after the book was published. Someday maybe it will see print. All the best. Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts
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Sorry, phone typing makes me less than clear sometimes.
The basic vanish certainly doesn’t need to be done seated. It is the vanish of the three balls just before revealing the final load that I’m talking about. For a seated performer, it is a lovely thing. I’m hoping to find something just as magical, just as pretty, just as simple in appearance, but that can be done standing. I will certainly look on my own and play with it, but if folks have suggestions, I’d rather build from established foundations than reinvent the wheel, as it were. Patrick |
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Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts
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Mr. Woolery
Without getting into detail, I can visualize several solutions. The first that comes to mind is vesting. Then sleeving and perhaps a belt servant. Then one of those pouches that cup and ball workers use. In this visualization the motion would be the same as at the table. Just thinking aloud. Al
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts
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Hadn't thought about vesting the balls. Might have to play with that. I'm not going to strap a big ol' purse onto my midriff, though. That's fine for folks who want to do that, but it really isn't me!
I normally wear short sleeves, so sleeving is not as simple as it might seem. Who knows? Maybe I'll end up with a devil's hank and just vanish the balls that way. If I use it to wrap up the cup, it is a logical object to have on the table. One of the great things about discussing things is that it stimulates my own thinking. I have too many conversations with more experienced magicians that result in being told "just do it the way I told you, don't try to make it fit your circumstances." Well, I'm a casual performer, not a pro. I do tricks for friends and family, mostly. I don't have the luxury of constructing the performing environment, so have to think about what would work for me where I often am. Thank you for being a more adaptable thinker, Al. (And for the record, I'd prefer you call me Patrick. I used my last name because when I signed up at the Café the name Patrick was already taken.) -Patrick |
Wravyn Inner circle 3515 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 17, 2018, Mr. Woolery wrote: If you use the hank in other parts of the routine prior to all the ball vanishes, it makes sense. |
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mr_misdirection New user 51 Posts
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I used to end my cup and balls routine with a vanish from the cup that I had visibly transferred them to throughout the routine. It was just a logical explanation but confused the audience.
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miky Regular user 140 Posts
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I, too, am always in short sleeves, and am never performing in a vest or jacket. So, for total stand-up vanishes of balls, coins, or small fruit, I always use the side leg-pocket on my cargo pants. It's at the perfect height to catch the palmed items as you relax your arm at your side. If the pocket has a flap, I just stick it in the pocket. It holds the pocket open, and no one's ever noticed.
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Mr. Woolery Inner circle Fairbanks, AK 2149 Posts
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Ha! I have been trouser shopping several times recently, trying to find cargo pants! None of the local stores seems to carry anything other than low rise, faded jeans and ugly shorts. Amazing. I’ll keep looking.
I really don’t want to start wearing a fanny pack just so I can do a magic trick. Not going to happen. Patrick |
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Posted: Jun 14, 2018 05:39 pm 
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