The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » "Foulard" (?) (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

karnak
View Profile
Veteran user
Colorado
362 Posts

Profile of karnak
Seeking precise clarity, here's my obvious novice Zombie question: technically speaking, what is the difference between a "foulard" and an otherwise ordinary, standard-issue magician's silk of the same size?

Dictionary definitions aren't very helpful in distinguishing foulards from silks. When magicians refer to "foulards" (in the context of a Zombie routine, for instance), what do they understand to be the distinction?

Is a Zombie foulard thicker, heavier, less translucent, or...?
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
JNeal
View Profile
Inner circle
I used to have 999 posts, now I have
1375 Posts

Profile of JNeal
Yes, a foulard is thicker, heavier, and less translucent. The word foulard comes from the French and refers to a particular weight and weave of fabric. In magic, we refer to a foulard as any cloth that has the qualities you listed. There are lots of different fabric weaves that are suitable for a Zombie cloth.
visit me @ JNealShow.com
karnak
View Profile
Veteran user
Colorado
362 Posts

Profile of karnak
Thanks for clearing up the nomenclature!
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
Bill Hegbli
View Profile
Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
20829 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
There is certain "jargon" used in the magic community, that sort of has it own definition for this industry.

When a magician says, "foulard" what should come to mind is a large cloth heavy weight material usually double sides, that have been sewn together to make them opaque.

The differences are for the purpose a foulard is being used for. Say, you would like to produce feather bouquets, bowls, bowls of fire, fish bowls, in other words large heavy props. In that case what should come to mind is thick cloth doubled sides, and sewn together.

When we say silk, what should come to mind is light material, available in various sizes. most silk is transparent, except for silk clothing. Magician use silks that come in square sizes. To make them opaque, depending on the use, silk is available in different thicknesses, called, "Momme", rated with a number, as in 3 momme, 6 momme, and 8 momme, is usually used in magic.

What has been mention in this topic, is Rice's Dragon silks, they have not been available for some time, but do show up on used websites. They have always been very expensive. Rice made a foulard for the Zombie ball presentation with the dragon design only. That was a heavier weight silk then the standards mentioned. The late great Neil Foster used this silk as a foulard, Rice took 2 off the heavy Dragon silks and sewn them together to be used for the Zombie ball. Don't know which came 1st, Neil Foster sewing 2 silks together or Rice doing it, but they were in their catalog in the early years, until all were sold.

The reasoning was simply that 2 silks sewn together made them totally opaque, because the air pocket created by attaching them together made them total opaque to the audience, and made it easier be able to control the Zombie ball in a the presentation.

Today, cloth has come a long way, and many of the material in Fabric Stores, have very thin material, including lining material for pants, jackets, for the cloths we wear. This also allows 2 pieces of material to be sewn together making it more opaque, and still be light weight for the performer to handle and transport. Many performers use a color scheme for their acts, so as in Norm Nielsen's stage act, he brown, blue, back, suites, and he has his Foulard for his Floating Violin to match his color scheme. I once seen Norm Nielsen use a brown cloth foulard, with a floral print cloth on the back side. Tommy wonder believed that all his props and Foulards should have a red border on black cloth, and black boarder on red cloth.

I bought a foulard cloth from Magic Inc. just because I liked the little tiny drummer boy in color on the cloth. Then I took it home an back it with black lining material to make it more opaque, because sometime you do not have control of your lighting. Sometimes you are performing with a window that has the Sun shining through, this strong light can show what is behind a single layer of material. Sometime, the light may come from the front or sides, and this can cause problems as well, it may expose the secret in some cases.

As far as choice, you have to select what you like, and if it is not available, have our wife, mother, grandmother, whom usually knows how to sew, sew it for you, unless you which to learn yourself, and gain another skill in your life. Otherwise, there are seamstress shops that will do it for a fee, much cheaper then a Taylor will charge.

All this could be learned from books, and reading is still a necessity in life. Simply browsing and reading the Tarbell Course will given a magician much knowledge and understanding when speaking to another magician.

Hope this gave you a better understanding of what us old timers have learned through browsing catalogs and going to magic shops over the years, before the Internet.
Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
Harry Murphy
View Profile
Inner circle
Maryland
5220 Posts

Profile of Harry Murphy
What they are saying is that some silks can be a Foulard but not every foulard can be a silk
The artist formally known as Mumblepeas!
karnak
View Profile
Veteran user
Colorado
362 Posts

Profile of karnak
Thanks for the additional extensive explanations and insights!
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
FrankFindley
View Profile
Regular user
104 Posts

Profile of FrankFindley
Quote:
On Jun 29, 2018, Bill Hegbli wrote:
What has been mention in this topic, is Rice's Dragon silks, they have not been available for some time, but do show up on used websites. They have always been very expensive. Rice made a foulard for the Zombie ball presentation with the dragon design only. That was a heavier weight silk then the standards mentioned. The late great Neil Foster used this silk as a foulard, Rice took 2 off the heavy Dragon silks and sewn them together to be used for the Zombie ball. Don't know which came 1st, Neil Foster sewing 2 silks together or Rice doing it, but they were in their catalog in the early years, until all were sold.


Funny aside. Sid Lorraine was doing a lecture at Abbotts which included folding silks for productions. One of the magicians asked him how he should fold his six foot dragon silk which he had there. His first reply was "Imagine doing the Zombie ball with that one!" It got quite a laugh.
hugmagic
View Profile
Inner circle
7309 Posts

Profile of hugmagic
There are zombie "foulards" and foulards for other things like flower productions or bowl productions. All are very different in the type of fabric used, thickness of fabric and size of the foulard.
Most Zombie "foulards" are made with a silk or silk like fabric of mutlitple layers that equal about 24 mom in thickness. The ones I have made have three layers of 8 momme silk with a black center layer.
Rice's zombie dragon foulards were made of two 12 momme silks.
Richard E. Hughes, Hughes Magic Inc., 352 N. Prospect St., Ravenna, OH 44266 (330)296-4023
www.hughesmagic.com
email-hugmagic@raex.com
Write direct as I will be turning off my PM's.
Anatole
View Profile
Inner circle
1722 Posts

Profile of Anatole
The GENII MagicPedia defines "Foulard" as:
"Foulard is an old fashioned (french) word for a large cloth, usually silk, to cover something. Often used with the Zombie illusion."
https://geniimagazine.com/wiki/index.php?title=Foulard

A foulard is usually heavier and more opaque than standard production silks and may be used for producing or vanishing objects like bowls of water--or a bird cage at the end of a dove act.

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
karnak
View Profile
Veteran user
Colorado
362 Posts

Profile of karnak
By way of follow-up, what’s the best or most recommended way of storing a foulard?

Folding it would possibly leave it with visible creases, detracting from its elegant appearance. Perhaps keeping it rolled up around a cardboard tube, or something?

And if creases do appear (or if it arrives from a dealer that way, with creases from its packaging), what’s the best way to smooth them out?

I’d probably feel wary of using a hot iron, out of (misplaced?) caution. But then, I know little to nothing about silks.
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
Bill Hegbli
View Profile
Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
20829 Posts

Profile of Bill Hegbli
Your question totally depends on how you are going to use it. Go back and read the posts, general questions will only get you general answers. In other words, please, be more specific.

You can always ask the place you purchased the fabric from, they usually know their products.
Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Finger/stage manipulation » » "Foulard" (?) (5 Likes)
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2018 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.19 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL